cold side oxygen reduction -

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Onthebrew
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cold side oxygen reduction -

Unread post by Onthebrew » Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:25 pm

My next investment will be a fermenter that can handle pressure transfers to minimise post fermentation oxygen pick up.

1. fermzilla
2. brewtech conical standard
3. blichman cornical.

scouring the web has got me this

1. fermzilla looks a good value option and the bigger harvesting chamber not only allows you to easily harvest yeast - you can use it to purge and dry hop. on the down side they seem to get dented easily and the pet case should be replaced after two years

2.brewtech conical looks the part, best build, built in thermowall, only downside is is can only pressure to to 2 psi but that should be all you need to transfer. also very heavy and id struggle to get it upstairs full

3.cornical - not seen many reviews of this and online using it as a serving vessel seems to get panned a bit but id only be using it as a fermenter. allows pressure transfers and has butterfly fitting- no thermowall though and is a keg shape not best for a FV?

thoughts everyone?

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Cristian
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Re: cold side oxygen reduction -

Unread post by Cristian » Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:57 pm

I do not have info about the fermenters you listed but for sure you will find many reviews on YouTube.
I could recommend David Heath for the review of fermzilla.

I personally use the Graifather Conical and I am more than happy with it.
Pros: excellent temperature stability due to insulated walls, very good bottom valve, integrated heating (which i used for the last 3 brews with kweik @35C), pressure transfer is possible (lid supports up to 2PSI but 1 is enough for this job)
Cons: no pressure fermentation possible

:beer:

Onthebrew
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Re: cold side oxygen reduction -

Unread post by Onthebrew » Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:45 pm

I discounted the GF one, impressive as it is , as i don't need temp control as ive a fridge so it would have been more than i need. if i hadn't forked out £160 for a tall fridge it might have been an option!

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mashy
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Re: cold side oxygen reduction -

Unread post by mashy » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:12 pm

Personally I have looked at all of these. Your review is very good.
But the question I struggle with is "what do they bring to the party?" apart from lighten your bank account or look shiney gorgeous.

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Cristian
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Re: cold side oxygen reduction -

Unread post by Cristian » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:32 pm

mashy wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:12 pm
Personally I have looked at all of these. Your review is very good.
But the question I struggle with is "what do they bring to the party?" apart from lighten your bank account or look shiney gorgeous.
I think it brings the following:

- yeast and turb dump if you need this step (lager/secondary etc)
- longer life
- under pressure fermentation
- easier to transfer to fermenter Low oxygen

General tendency I see is to replicate as much as possible the industrial setup. Now, under pressure fermentation becomes more and more popular due to fermenzilla accessible price. Never did it but the feedbacks are great (cleaner faster tastier results).

Vladimir
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Re: cold side oxygen reduction -

Unread post by Vladimir » Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:10 pm

mashy wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:12 pm
But the question I struggle with is "what do they bring to the party?" apart from lighten your bank account or look shiney gorgeous.
My thoughts exactly. I have been thinking a while about upgrading my fermenters. Looked a lot at fermzillas, brew buckets, chronical etc. But I realized it is something I don't need and maybe never will.
Not sure about prices in another countries, but here in Norway, I can get 15 plastic buckets with spigot and airlock for the price of one brew bucket. Chronicals etc. are much more pricey. Everybody says, that stainless steel fermenters will last forever, but you need to change o-rings and stuff on them and I bet they get scratched eventually as well. Point is, you can use money on other, more important things. Frankly I don't understand this obsession with pressure transfers and oxygen anxiety, but I'm not a modern IPA fancier so I might be missing a point here.

Anyway, a lot of people use corny kegs as fermeters. If you want to try fermenting under pressure and pressurized transfers, you might want to look at that option.

I think I'm just getting old and grumpy, but looking at chronicals etc, instead of beautiful shiny conicals, all I see is a lot of fittings that need cleaning.

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mashy
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Re: cold side oxygen reduction -

Unread post by mashy » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:14 pm

General tendency I see is to replicate as much as possible the industrial setup.
I do have to disagree with you on that point.
Industrial does not mean better. It may mean faster or cheaper. But very rarely are decisions made for quality.

We have a opportunity to do just what we like, and can afford to be guided solely by best beer, which has to be the polar opposite of commercial (there issues are very different).

If there are benefits to lagering I cannot comment. I don't.

Last longer.. Really? How rough are you with them? :D

Easier transfers. That is proper sales speak. Vacuum is a very inefficient tool for that job. I know I have tried it with wine.
I move large batches with pumps in the winery. If there is a problem get a pump.

Now if you had said its gorgeous and shiney and I want to showoff fantastic model brewery.... I would have to agree with you.

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Cristian
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Re: cold side oxygen reduction -

Unread post by Cristian » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:05 am

Of course I was not referring to replicate industrial beer taste. I was referring to the tendency of replicating the tools used in a let’s say microbrewery. As chillers, spunding valves, pressure fermentation, oxygenation tools etc. Look at brewdog case. They destroyed almost all beers by scaling up.
Brewing the beer you like is for sure the aim but improving the equipment and techniques is also important. You may consider your beer very good but then you may go to a homebrew gathering and taste other homebrew beers and understand that you need some improvements in your process. I think this pushes you to brew better beer.
Of course they will last longer. Plastic vs steel.
By easier transfer I was referring that you connect the fermenter to CO2 and push the wort to keg in a low O2 environment. (Of course not by transferring the wort while having the airlock on :? )
I used my conical fermenter for more than a year now. So my feedback is based on using both plastic buckets and steel fermenters.

Does it worth the investment? In my opinion, if you have the budget, for sure yes.
On the same logic, you may ask yourself: does the BM20 worth 1500 euros? Does it produce way better beer vs cheap BIAB? Is it better vs competitors? Probably not. Is it shinier? Probably yes

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Cristian
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Re: cold side oxygen reduction -

Unread post by Cristian » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:17 am

Vladimir wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:10 pm
mashy wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:12 pm
But the question I struggle with is "what do they bring to the party?" apart from lighten your bank account or look shiney gorgeous.
My thoughts exactly. I have been thinking a while about upgrading my fermenters. Looked a lot at fermzillas, brew buckets, chronical etc. But I realized it is something I don't need and maybe never will.
Not sure about prices in another countries, but here in Norway, I can get 15 plastic buckets with spigot and airlock for the price of one brew bucket. Chronicals etc. are much more pricey. Everybody says, that stainless steel fermenters will last forever, but you need to change o-rings and stuff on them and I bet they get scratched eventually as well. Point is, you can use money on other, more important things. Frankly I don't understand this obsession with pressure transfers and oxygen anxiety, but I'm not a modern IPA fancier so I might be missing a point here.

Anyway, a lot of people use corny kegs as fermeters. If you want to try fermenting under pressure and pressurized transfers, you might want to look at that option.

I think I'm just getting old and grumpy, but looking at chronicals etc, instead of beautiful shiny conicals, all I see is a lot of fittings that need cleaning.
It depends on the style you brew. Some of them will need much attention on this aspect to avoid hop oil volatility. It’s the drink super fresh kind of beers within 1 month. Like NEIPA style

Vladimir
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Re: cold side oxygen reduction -

Unread post by Vladimir » Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:12 pm

Cristian wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:17 am
[It depends on the style you brew. Some of them will need much attention on this aspect to avoid hop oil volatility. It’s the drink super fresh kind of beers within 1 month. Like NEIPA style
That's exactly what i meant :D
Vladimir wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:10 pm
but I'm not a modern IPA fancier so I might be missing a point here.
I have to admit that I am a massive fancier of shiny conicals when looking at them online. Total brew porn. But just as with real porn, it's fun to look at while you are browsing the interwebs, but do you need to have a porn star at home? Anyway, we're getting OT here. Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder :beer: .

When it comes to fermenters mentioned, I'd definitely go for a brewtech conical. It's got nice reviews, many happy users and if you don't like it after all, it will be easy to sell.

Apart from that, as mentioned, fermenting in a corny seems to be a nice option.

There is also a pressure transfer kit that fits the standard speidel fermenters as well :cheers: .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAPzRRVCtyQ

Onthebrew
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Re: cold side oxygen reduction -

Unread post by Onthebrew » Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:58 pm

Vladimir wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:12 pm
Cristian wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:17 am
[It depends on the style you brew. Some of them will need much attention on this aspect to avoid hop oil volatility. It’s the drink super fresh kind of beers within 1 month. Like NEIPA style
That's exactly what i meant :D
Vladimir wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:10 pm
but I'm not a modern IPA fancier so I might be missing a point here.
I have to admit that I am a massive fancier of shiny conicals when looking at them online. Total brew porn. But just as with real porn, it's fun to look at while you are browsing the interwebs, but do you need to have a porn star at home? Anyway, we're getting OT here. Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder :beer: .

When it comes to fermenters mentioned, I'd definitely go for a brewtech conical. It's got nice reviews, many happy users and if you don't like it after all, it will be easy to sell.

Apart from that, as mentioned, fermenting in a corny seems to be a nice option.

There is also a pressure transfer kit that fits the standard speidel fermenters as well :cheers: .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAPzRRVCtyQ
does that pressure Kit work with the regular spiedal fermenters- the 30 litres ones? no Volume on PC so cant hear what they say.
ive also found a transfer kit for my brewtech ss bucket- but to get everything needed including a new lid will cost nearly as much as a fermzilla so tempted to go that route instead.

i think the brewtech chronical maybe be a bit difficult to move about and maybe a bit of a faff to clean- definitely looking the part though

quick question for those already using pressure transfers - with NEIPAs and other mega hopped brews- has the improvement been significant?

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Cristian
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Re: cold side oxygen reduction -

Unread post by Cristian » Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:37 pm

kegging yes. I would not bother to bottle this style.

Vladimir
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Re: cold side oxygen reduction -

Unread post by Vladimir » Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:39 pm

Onthebrew wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:58 pm
does that pressure Kit work with the regular spiedal fermenters- the 30 litres ones?
https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/ ... ystem.html

Their website says it works with all the speidel fermenter bigger than 12l, but the racking cane wont reach to the bottom of the 120l one. So 30l is surely fine :cheers:

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mashy
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Re: cold side oxygen reduction -

Unread post by mashy » Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:29 pm

But just as with real porn, it's fun to look at while you are browsing the interwebs, but do you need to have a porn star at home? Anyway, we're getting OT here. Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder :beer: .
Brilliant.

Onthebrew
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Re: cold side oxygen reduction -

Unread post by Onthebrew » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:57 am

Vladimir wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:39 pm
Onthebrew wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:58 pm
does that pressure Kit work with the regular spiedal fermenters- the 30 litres ones?
https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/ ... ystem.html

Their website says it works with all the speidel fermenter bigger than 12l, but the racking cane wont reach to the bottom of the 120l one. So 30l is surely fine :cheers:

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