A tribute to Orval

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Re: A tribute to Orval

Unread postby niels » Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:08 pm

dinnerstick wrote:i put mine in a keg with the brett, going to leave it a few months with an airlock. if you're pretty sure you can estimate the final gravity then your bottling idea sounds good, but i'd be nervous about it the first time

Well, sounds like I better try the secondary approach first. Although I would use Orval bottles, I'm not sure they would withstand a major calculation error. And gusher isn't my favourite type of beer either...

Still looking at the mash schedule, but I'll have my recipe ready in a few days.

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Re: A tribute to Orval

Unread postby dinnerstick » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:32 am

orval-ish beer august 2014: brett is added, after 1 week with brett the gravity is still dropping (~1.012 from 1.060) but as yet no bretty flavors. why am i posting this. dunno.

i threatened to brew a pale first, then orval, then big dark beer, but the pale ale fell out of the schedule in favor of a hoppy beer needed for a party.

yesterday the brewday for the rochefort-8-style beer went so smoothly, and the yeast harvested from the orval-ish is really going to town on it.

oh yeah, i brewed enough of the orval-ish to fill a keg, and then another 4 liters or so. the keg got the brett, and to the extra bit i added lots of red grapes from my back yard. who knows...
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Re: A tribute to Orval

Unread postby malzrohr » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:28 am

dinnerstick wrote:...oh yeah, i brewed enough of the orval-ish to fill a keg, and then another 4 liters or so. the keg got the brett, and to the extra bit i added lots of red grapes from my back yard. who knows...


Using Saccharomyces, Brettanomyces and whatever indigenous yeast on the grapes sounds like a fun hybride inoculation experiment.
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Re: A tribute to Orval

Unread postby dinnerstick » Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:29 pm

yeah who knows what's on those things! nothing to lose, and if it's good i'll recreate it next year in a big batch. the color is really becoming vivid as the beer clears. the grape one didn't get any domesticated brett, only what's on the fruit.
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Re: A tribute to Orval

Unread postby dinnerstick » Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:09 pm

i put my orval tribute on tap just now, after giving the brett a couple months, a week or so of styrian goldings dry hop, and a week at 2 degrees to clear a bit. i pitched the brett to the serving keg, so any/all of it is in there still. the first couple glasses (not quite carbed up yet) are very cloudy, but the copper/amber color seems to be about spot on. it's dry (haven't actually taken a post-brett FG reading yet now that i think about it), has a bit of brett funk, a bit fruity, styrian gives a bit more blackcurrant flavor than i remember, and i think the bitterness is around where it should be. it's complex, not quite there yet, another week to clear and take on CO2, but promising! once it's declared done i'll do a side by side with similar age orval.
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Re: A tribute to Orval

Unread postby niels » Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:47 pm

In a few weeks I'll be brewing my Orvalish beer. It will be based on the different recipes referenced in this thread and what I have in stock (as I don't want to buy new ingredients if possible).

Code: Select all
Fermentables:
5.250kg - 57.7% - Pale Ale
2.300kg - 25.3% - Vienna
0.450kg -  4.95% - Aroma 150
1.100kg - 12.09% - Cane sugar

Hops:
60' - 26.3 IBU -  75gr - 6.47% East Kent Goldings (stock)
15' -  3.5 IBU -  25gr - 5.13% Hallertau Mittelfrüh (stock)
15' -  5.4 IBU -  25gr - 5.00% Styrian Goldings (stock)
00' -  0.0 IBU -  50gr - 5.00% Styrian Goldings (stock)
Dry -  0.0 IBU - 100gr - x.xx% Styrian Goldings (new)

Yeast: Wyeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes - Pitched at 15°C, freely rise to max. 22°C. After about 4 days transfer to secondary and add cultured bottle dregs. Leave for a few months. Bottle with fresh yeast and priming sugar.

Masch schedule
Mash in at 52°C
 30 min at 52°C
 60 min at 64°C
 20 min at 72°C
  5 min at 78°C


I'm not sure about when to dry-hop... I suppose it is no use dry-hopping in the primary as all hop flavours will be gone when secondary finishes.

- Niels
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Re: A tribute to Orval

Unread postby dinnerstick » Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:32 pm

update, this beer just wasn't done. it had something slick in the mouthfeel, and a sharp taste i didn't like. the solution? get it off tap and give it a month at room temp. chilled it back down and just tapped it again, and it's a different animal. it's still pulling yeast off the bottom as i accidentally shook it too much while tapping, but, even with the slightly yeasty pint, now we're talking. no weird mouthfeel, the bitterness comes through, the brett is giving its hint of leather, but quite subdued. i'll post a photo once i pull a clearer glass, this one is really murky.
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Re: A tribute to Orval

Unread postby dinnerstick » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:59 pm

still a bit cloudy for my tastes, i hope it clears a bit in time. but it tastes great, especially in front of the wood stove!
(sorry my phone takes horrid pictures and i couldn't be bothered to go fetch the real camera. and yes, that's a piece of kindling and not my coffee table)
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Re: A tribute to Orval

Unread postby dinnerstick » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:19 pm

After a few months in the bottle this beer is finally coming into its own. Now it's quite amazing actually. Big spice up front, black currant from the dry hop, a hint of funk, bone dry finish. Yeah. Niels, I'll bring you a bottle at the bierberaad in Amsterdam! I'm already thinking about scheduling in another brew so I can give it a good 8 months to mature.
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Re: A tribute to Orval

Unread postby niels » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:29 am

I will be bottling mine on Friday. Need to add the dry hops tonight.

Tonight I'll also make a small starter from Orval to add to 10 L of a kriek batch.

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Re: A tribute to Orval

Unread postby niels » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:36 pm

Mmm... Bottling on Friday may be a bit premature. I just went to check the carboy and there was some airlock activity. On the surface of the beer there were some spots with foam/bubbles. Didn't look like an infection, but since it is my first Brett experience I can't say this is normal.

The carboy has been in the cellar for over 2 months at a 12-14 °C, so maybe it tool some time to get the Brett going?

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Re: A tribute to Orval

Unread postby Nesto » Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:44 pm

niels wrote:Mmm... Bottling on Friday may be a bit premature. I just went to check the carboy and there was some airlock activity. On the surface of the beer there were some spots with foam/bubbles. Didn't look like an infection, but since it is my first Brett experience I can't say this is normal.

The carboy has been in the cellar for over 2 months at a 12-14 °C, so maybe it tool some time to get the Brett going?

- Niels

Did you do a starter with the bottle dregs? Or just pitch the dregs? One things I learned about Brett is you need a lot of patience :) It might take a few more months even. What's the gravity now? The foam and bubbles you see are probably the beginnings of a pellicle forming - pretty common with Brett fermentation. At some point you might see the pellicle over the entire surface of the beer - it can look like a plastic sheet or various other weird things. You want to disturb the pellicle as little as possible as it actually protects the beer from oxygen.
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Re: A tribute to Orval

Unread postby niels » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:12 pm

Nesto wrote:Did you do a starter with the bottle dregs? Or just pitch the dregs? One things I learned about Brett is you need a lot of patience :) It might take a few more months even. What's the gravity now? The foam and bubbles you see are probably the beginnings of a pellicle forming - pretty common with Brett fermentation. At some point you might see the pellicle over the entire surface of the beer - it can look like a plastic sheet or various other weird things. You want to disturb the pellicle as little as possible as it actually protects the beer from oxygen.

Just dregs, so that's probably the reason. I'm aware of the slowness of Brett, but I thought I would have seen a bit more activity earlier on.

I should take a gravity reading as I've no idea at all :)

Just a thought: I "need" the glass carboy that is occupied with the Orval-ish for a Brett inoculation of (part of) my kriek. Could I take a gravity reading and bottle the Orval with a conservative amount of sugar and let the Brett "finish" in the bottle for a few more months? How fast does Brett handle the simple sugars (e.g. priming sugar)? Or should I add some bottling yeast too?

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Re: A tribute to Orval

Unread postby HopSong » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:26 pm

Nesto wrote:Did you do a starter with the bottle dregs? Or just pitch the dregs? One things I learned about Brett is you need a lot of patience :) It might take a few more months even. What's the gravity now? The foam and bubbles you see are probably the beginnings of a pellicle forming - pretty common with Brett fermentation. At some point you might see the pellicle over the entire surface of the beer - it can look like a plastic sheet or various other weird things. You want to disturb the pellicle as little as possible as it actually protects the beer from oxygen.


How do you know what is in the bottle dregs? Many breweries use a totally different yeast strain for carbonation vs the fermentation yeast, which might be proprietary..
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Re: A tribute to Orval

Unread postby dinnerstick » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:42 pm

the brett will devour the simple bottling sugar, no problem there. you're going to be guessing quite a bit on how much priming sugar to add though. It's always safe to err on the conservative side, but this is a beer that wants a high carbonation level. I am curious to know how many gravity points the brett has taken the beer down (as are you!).
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