mash in strike temperature?

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mash in strike temperature?

Unread postby hegeyb » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:53 pm

I am new to the BM, and am confused over how to program the first step. I am used to heating the water to a strike temperature which is higher than the target mash temperature because the grain lowers the temp when added to the water.

When I program the first phase at the strike temp, then I try to program the second phase to the lower mash temp, but it won't let me lower the temp below the first phase strike temp. I went ahead and just programmed in the mash temp and skipped the strike temperature part. Did I do this right?
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Re: mash in strike temperature?

Unread postby Victor Coelho » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:46 pm

hegeyb wrote:I am new to the BM, and am confused over how to program the first step. I am used to heating the water to a strike temperature which is higher than the target mash temperature because the grain lowers the temp when added to the water.

When I program the first phase at the strike temp, then I try to program the second phase to the lower mash temp, but it won't let me lower the temp below the first phase strike temp. I went ahead and just programmed in the mash temp and skipped the strike temperature part. Did I do this right?


Hi!
Here's what I do.
I set the first step with the strike temp for a certain target temp and time 0.
The second step with the target temp and desired mash time.
This works for me.
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Re: mash in strike temperature?

Unread postby Dicko » Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:41 am

hegeyb wrote:I am new to the BM, and am confused over how to program the first step. I am used to heating the water to a strike temperature which is higher than the target mash temperature because the grain lowers the temp when added to the water.

When I program the first phase at the strike temp, then I try to program the second phase to the lower mash temp, but it won't let me lower the temp below the first phase strike temp. I went ahead and just programmed in the mash temp and skipped the strike temperature part. Did I do this right?


With the BM you can forget trying to calculate an infusion dough in temperature because the machine does it all for you.

I set the very first setting to 38 deg and then add my grain.
Then from there press start to carry on through the rest of your mash schedule.
In other words if I were doing a simple mash of 66 deg I would set the very firs temp setting you come to in the controller to 38 and then add your grain and then continue on and the BM will heat the mash to 66 and hold it for as long as you set the time and then when that time has lapsed it will atomatically heat the mash to the next step for mash out etc.

If you sceptical about starting at 38 then just start or set the first temp setting in the auto menu to your desired mash temp and add the grain and it may drop a degree or two but it will soon bring the temp up and continue your mash as planned.

:cheers:
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Re: mash in strike temperature?

Unread postby Nesto » Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:44 am

hegeyb wrote:I am new to the BM, and am confused over how to program the first step. I am used to heating the water to a strike temperature which is higher than the target mash temperature because the grain lowers the temp when added to the water.

When I program the first phase at the strike temp, then I try to program the second phase to the lower mash temp, but it won't let me lower the temp below the first phase strike temp. I went ahead and just programmed in the mash temp and skipped the strike temperature part. Did I do this right?

You mean this equation...
((Cpm*Mm+Cpw*Mw)*Tf-(Cpm*Mm*Tm))/(Cpw*Mw)

Cpm= heat capacity of your malt, about 0.32
Cpw= heat capacity of water, 1.0
Mw = mass of water used
Mm = mass of malt used
Tw = temperature of strike water
Tm = beginning temperature of malt (usually room temperature)
Tf = final temperature of mixture (rest temp)
Vw = volume of water at 70F
Note: The mass of water at 70F = 8.35lbs/gal

We are SO happy we don't have to worry about that anymore. I'm like Dicko, except I dough in at 40C (it's a vastly superior dough-in temp to 38C :lol: ). I set my 40C rest for 5 minutes (some folks do it longer, but too long leads to some problems). You get a lot of benefit from this rest: thermal equilibrium in the mash pipe, breaking down cell walls to make starches more available, and helping the enzymes get ready. Then I go to the rest of my mash program.
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Re: mash in strike temperature?

Unread postby dinnerstick » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:13 am

just to add, single infusion mashers who have never had the 'pleasure' of doughing in at a low temp, wait until you try it! it's so EASY! you don't get dumplings forming all over the place! even if you don't intend to do a proper protein rest (or acid, or beta-glucan), i recommend douging in somewhere ~45 or below and then immediately ramping up, just for the ease of it.
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Re: mash in strike temperature?

Unread postby BrauTim » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:38 am

I've not noticed a change in temp when doughing in at any temp in the 50BM. When you add malt, the lower plate holds the mash suspended above the temp probe so the temp doesn't change (the mash volume temp might change but this doesn't affect the temp probe), as soon as re-circulation starts I still don't see a drop in temp (and then the BM starts to maintain temp anyway).

I think your grain would have to be really chilly to get a change in the temp.
To brew or not to brew, that would be a stupid question !
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Re: mash in strike temperature?

Unread postby 3LB » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:47 pm

dinnerstick wrote:[...] you don't get dumplings forming all over the place! [...]


Dinnerstick, can you please elaborate on this?
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Re: mash in strike temperature?

Unread postby dinnerstick » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:18 pm

sure- when i mash in at sacc temps (60's) i get doughballs / dumplings; the malt sticks together and big clumps of malt form a sort of dry bubble- the outside of the clump seals off the inside, which stays dry. i really have to stir vigorously to prevent clumping. at lower (40's) temps the malt doesn't stick together as readily, and the malt can be poured in more freely without forming doughballs. i still stir it as i am adding it but don't have to stir so vigorously or be as vigilant.
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Re: mash in strike temperature?

Unread postby 3LB » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:06 pm

Great, thanks.

This does ring a bell, come to think of it: for my first ever brew I used a 'proper' 3 stage scheme and mashing in didn't seem to be so 'hard' as when I did my second brew with a single temp.
Mind you, the malt pipe was less full the first time (5840 g pilsner malt in 25 l) than for the second brew (6320 g in 23 l) :)

Will try multi step again for my planned Tripel.
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Re: mash in strike temperature?

Unread postby cpa4ny » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:02 am

dinnerstick wrote:sure- when i mash in at sacc temps (60's) i get doughballs / dumplings; the malt sticks together and big clumps of malt form a sort of dry bubble- the outside of the clump seals off the inside, which stays dry. i really have to stir vigorously to prevent clumping. at lower (40's) temps the malt doesn't stick together as readily, and the malt can be poured in more freely without forming doughballs. i still stir it as i am adding it but don't have to stir so vigorously or be as vigilant.


+1 on this :beer:

The great late George Fix advocated the first rest @ 40C for well-modified malts or @ 50C for less-modified malts.

Straight out of Palmer's HTB:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter16-2.html
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Re: mash in strike temperature?

Unread postby hegeyb » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:40 am

Thanks for all of the great feedback, I will put my trust in you for my next brew and start the mash at the target temp, which just feels weird, but this old dog can still learn new tricks!
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Re: mash in strike temperature?

Unread postby hegeyb » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:45 am

Ok, one last question since you have been so kind: how do I put the BM on hold if I need to? for example, if I want to stir the mash for a bit without it running over while I have the top plate off?
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Re: mash in strike temperature?

Unread postby dinnerstick » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:25 am

you can pause it at any time during the mash by pressing the up and down buttons at the same time. it will then ask you to resume or cancel, so this is also the way to cancel if something has gone wrong. at least this is how my version works, i don't know if this is different on the different firmware versions!
(computer people, did i use 'firmware' correctly? out of comfort zone with that word)
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Re: mash in strike temperature?

Unread postby 3LB » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:36 am

dinnerstick wrote:[...]did i use 'firmware' correctly? [...]

You did :)
Thx for the info, good to know!
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Re: mash in strike temperature?

Unread postby hegeyb » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:42 am

I think I tried pressing everything but that, THANKS!!
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