temp problems

How to get most out of brewing with your Braumeister? Help others and share your tips/best practices.

temp problems

Unread postby we5ty » Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:00 am

Hi all,

I had a pretty good first try of my new 20L BM yesterday. But I had 3 temperature problems that I need some help with. I just have the BM, no jacket or hood. The ambient temp was about 22ºC.

1. After the mashout phase I lifted the pipe and began sparging. I told the BM to go to boil (I had set the boil temp to 103º in the recipe). It beeped at me to add hops when it was only at 90º (just after the pump cutout warning at 88ºC). I hit accept and the boil timer commenced, so I aborted the recipe, went into manual mode and set temp to 103º. When I had a gentle rolling boil and a temp of 100º I started my own boil timer and added hops. Anyone else had this problem?

2. I added my empty 15m copper immersion chiller in with 15min to go, and the temp dropped from 101º to 95º, but didn't recover back to 100º for the remainder of the boil. Short of just sterilising the chiller in starsan and dropping it in at 'flameout' what else could I do?

3. I tried a new technique for chilling - I wanted to try Jamil's whirlpool immersion chiller technique (http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php) and I added a pre-chiller in the water line (Ice slurry pumping water through a plate chiller). I can't believe how well it worked - I chilled the wort to 20ºC in about 20 minutes. But the BM actual temp reading wasn't even close to being accurate. After 15L of very hot water coming out of the chiller it became hand hot - the BM was still reading 80ºC. I grabbed my glass thermometer and the wort temp was 40º. I drained the BM into the fermenter when the glass thermo was reading 20ºC - the BM temp was reading 64ºC. Has anyone experienced this problem?

I usually no chill - I find it just makes brewday simple and I can make a starter from the extra wort. I wanted to get more accurate volume measurements which is why i decided to chill this time around. It worked really well, but the extra time spent cleaning and babysitting the chilling process doesn't make it worth it (in my opinion!)

Thanks for helping with my newbie questions!

westy
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Re: temp problems

Unread postby Dicko » Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:53 pm

Hi we5ty,

I am assuming you have the new controller so after checking all the connections etc on the bottom I would put 20 l of water in it and put it on manual and raise the temp in increments of 10 degrees and note the results against an accurate thermometer.
If the results vary then it is a fault and you need to contact the retailer and or Speidel.
From my experience they tend to blame the sensor unit first before they admit the controller has a fault...although with any new model the manufacturer may know of an inherant problem.
Keep us posted of the results,

:cheers:
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Re: temp problems

Unread postby Dan » Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:00 pm

1. Sounds like a possible programming fault
As Dicko mentioned - new controller?
Most of us also set boil to 102. Can't see how this would fix your problem, but something to keep in mind.

2. Was there already ice cold water in the chiller coil?
I sit mine in a bucket of starsan when I add the yeast nutrient/brewbrite mix at 10 min left in the boil.
Then chuck it in at end of boil, start running chill water, set BM to manual and turn on pump.
Make sure hoses are connected before immersing - been burnt before when a tiny bit of water in the coil turned to steam.

3. Do you run the BM pump while chilling?
If not, it's possible there are hot spots in the wort.
Odd that there is such a big difference though - I'd imagine differences that big would set up convection currents and mix those hot spots.
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Re: temp problems

Unread postby we5ty » Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:23 am

Thanks guys for your quick replies. Yes it's a new controller - I'll try dicko's advice and check the temps before I brew next.

The immersion chiller was empty, but I think I'll try the starsan method next time.

I wasn't running the bm pump but I was running a pump from the tap back up the top (so I could try whirlpooling using the extra pump and get a tight trub cone). I had hoped the whirlpool would reduce the hot spots but I wonder if the trub cone acts as a heat reservoir... The wort is cool but the trub stays warm.

Here is a photo of the complicated setup!

Image

Cheers,

Westy
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Re: temp problems

Unread postby MattSR » Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:31 pm

Just curious - what type of hose is that and where did you get it?
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Re: temp problems

Unread postby bhe » Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:33 pm

Hi!

I just want to mention a possible reason for strange temp-readings.
When I started using my BM i had bags with hops just threwn into the BM, and when i was trying to chill the wort the temp didn't go down even though i could actually physicly feel it was going down. In my case there was a bag with hops blocking the temp-reader. So instead of reporting the temp of the wort is reported the temp of the bag with the hops which was a lot higher (about 60 instead av 25 degrees).

In order to solve this i now tie the bags to the center pole and just push the bags a few centimeters under the Surface of the wort.
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Re: temp problems

Unread postby Nesto » Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:02 pm

we5ty wrote:... The immersion chiller was empty, but I think I'll try the starsan method next time. ...

+1 on the Starsan method. I do the same as Dan and let my immersion chiller sit in a bucket of Starsan for ~10 minutes before the end of the boil.
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temp problems

Unread postby we5ty » Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:20 am

MattSR wrote:Just curious - what type of hose is that and where did you get it?


They are a silicone rubber hose, I get it from grain and grape in Melbourne - $5 per metre.

BHE I just threw the hops in, but I had a pretty big trub cone when I drained - maybe the same problem.

Image
Last edited by we5ty on Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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temp problems

Unread postby we5ty » Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:20 am

Hood = hops. Damn autocorrect! (Worked out I could edit orig post!)
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Re: temp problems

Unread postby niels » Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:50 am

Regarding #1: I had the same problem during my last brew with the BM10 prototype. I've to contact Speidel about it, but with the holidays they are closed.
I blamed it on being a prototype, but knowing this also happened to a production unit I will send out the e-mail today.

2 & 3/ Depending on how cold your chiller was the temp drop can be significant. Also remember that the temp probe is in the bottom and shows the temp at that particular place. If you're touching it with your chiller or covering it with a hop bag it might affect the reading. Also hop trub does this (I speak from experience).
You might want to stir the wort a bit to improve the reading if you're concerned.

I go for the StarSan method too. Putting a cold cooler into the wort already helps a few degrees :)

- Niels
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Re: temp problems

Unread postby we5ty » Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:20 am

Hi neils,

Thanks for chasing this up with speidel... I'll be interested to hear what they say!

I just reread the manual - point 11.6 (hops boiling process) says:
"As the target temp of 100°C cannot always be reached, timing starts after a waiting period of 2 minutes without increase in temperature. When pressing the select button in automatic mode, the target temperature and target time can be corrected or changed."

I wonder if this is what happened. After the pump cut out at 88°c the lag in temp increase caused the bm to think it was at boiling point, so tried to start hop addition.

I think my #3 problem was due to the trub covering the probe. I'll stir it up next time and see what happens.

Cheers,

Westy
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Re: temp problems

Unread postby johnrm » Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:33 am

There should not be any trub at the start of the boil to inhibit the temp probe unless you are first wort hopping.
Why not fabricate a jacket from a camping mat or duvet? See if this makes a difference.
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Re: temp problems

Unread postby we5ty » Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:29 pm

Dicko wrote:Hi we5ty,

I am assuming you have the new controller so after checking all the connections etc on the bottom I would put 20 l of water in it and put it on manual and raise the temp in increments of 10 degrees and note the results against an accurate thermometer.
If the results vary then it is a fault and you need to contact the retailer and or Speidel.
From my experience they tend to blame the sensor unit first before they admit the controller has a fault...although with any new model the manufacturer may know of an inherant problem.
Keep us posted of the results,

:cheers:


Hi Dicko,
I tried this and the temp was accurate to 1°C at 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 using my glass thermometer. Rolling boil happened at 101°c but needed to be set at 103 to maintain it. Still not sure what happened - next brew is in 2 days so I'll see if it happens again.

johnrm wrote:There should not be any trub at the start of the boil to inhibit the temp probe unless you are first wort hopping.
Why not fabricate a jacket from a camping mat or duvet? See if this makes a difference.


I think the trub affected the temp drop while the wort was chilling, rather than getting me to the boil. I have been thinking about making a jacket - I had made one for my previous keggle/kettles and it worked well - I do like the look of the bm jacket but don't know if I can justify the cost!
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Re: temp problems

Unread postby janox » Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:13 pm

i got the same (nr.1) problem as you so it does indeed seem like a programming fault with the new models, starts the boiling timer @ 90C.
Hopefully this will be fixed when we can update our units.
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Re: temp problems

Unread postby we5ty » Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:20 am

janox wrote:i got the same (nr.1) problem as you so it does indeed seem like a programming fault with the new models, starts the boiling timer @ 90C.
Hopefully this will be fixed when we can update our units.


2nd brew today - same issue again with the boil timer starting at 90ºC. Today though I wanted to boil off until I hit my target pre-boil gravity - so I would have switched into manual mode anyway. I think that will just be my solution until spiedel fix the software problem.

Neils have you heard anything about this issue?

Cheers,

westy
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