To single step or to multi step

How to get most out of brewing with your Braumeister? Help others and share your tips/best practices.

To single step or to multi step

Unread postby richard54 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:59 pm

............the other elephant in the room is "to single step or multi step?" I have done 10 brews on my 20L, all different recipes, and all using a schedule similar to one i found on aussie home brewer ie 52C for 10, 66C for 60, 73C for 30 and 78C for 15. All seem OK, but would like to try same UK recipe with a single mash at say 66-67C for 60 mins. Also want to try a hybrid i.e. a conventional 66-67C mash plus other steps. My current schedule is 53C for 10, 65C for 60, 73C for 35 and 77C for 10. You can see i am approaching that already and the aussie schedule is definitely already there. Reason i am a bit below at 65C is i want to promote fermentable sugar which is optimum at 64C, while 66.7C is typical UK single mash temp.. Thoughts?
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Re: To single step or to multi step

Unread postby Dicko » Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:15 pm

My methods to mashing are,

German Pilseners/Lagers dough in at 38 protein at 55 for 10mins, Beta at 63 for 40 mins, Alpha at 72 for 20 mins, mash out at 77.

Aussie Lagers. Dough in at 38 Mash at 65 for 60 mins Alpha at 72 for 20 mins, mash out at 77

English Ales apa's ipa's dough in at 38 mash at 66 / 67 for 60 mins Alpha at 72 for 20 mins mash out at 77.

Porters and stouts may get a higher Beta rest if I think the beer will benefit.

I think that most BM owners multi step just because we can :D :lol:

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Re: To single step or to multi step

Unread postby Elderberry » Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:33 am

Agreed. I've made some great beers using single-step mashes pre-braumeister. All my Braumeister beers have been multi-step. Because I can.
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Re: To single step or to multi step

Unread postby niels » Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:41 am

I made one beer on my BM using single step (recipe: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=337) and it felt like cheating ;)

No, not really. Being Belgian I'm used to using multi step mashes and so doing a single step mash felt a bit awkward. The beer turned out great and I might do it again.

Using single step mashes might save you a little time on brewing day, but nothing worth making it a decision point for me. I will continue doing multi step mashes. Because I'm Belgian! (and I can...)

:beer:
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Re: To single step or to multi step

Unread postby dinnerstick » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:39 am

+1 because i can. but i don't do lots of rests usually. especially as i use a lot of english base malt, golden promise or maris otter, it comes so well modified. i find avoiding dough balls / dumplings is easier at protein rest temp than sacc rest temp, so in general i dough in somewhere in the 50's and hold for a few minutes, ramp to a single sacc rest, and then to mashout. single infusion mashing does feel a bit like taking the ferrari to go shopping. but i can't tell the difference between these beers and ones with multiple sacc rests for these simple grain bill beers. i love making less familiar beers with beta glucan or ferrulic acid rests, protein, two sacc rests, as in beers with a lot of unmalted grains or lots of oats of unfamiliar pilsner malt, then i feel i'm getting the most out of my little german friend
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Re: To single step or to multi step

Unread postby Elderberry » Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:20 am

I'll add to my comment. I do it because I can, but also because I think it's fun. I was internetting around not long ago and found a website with a graph of what happens at different temps (sorry, I have no idea where I found it). I used that and ended up with possibly the best head retention I've had on a beer. Of course, it's entirely possible that the addition of rye and oats in the mash helped.

I'm useless, I know. But somehow I brew pretty good beer.
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Re: To single step or to multi step

Unread postby dinnerstick » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:10 am

hahaha...
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Re: To single step or to multi step

Unread postby richard54 » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:44 pm

Appart from curiosity my other reason for wanting a single rest at 66 "or thereabouts is because my beers all have a specific taste which although not unpleasant is different to pub beers. I wondered if this is due to the multi step mash profile.. I going to use a different yeast supplier next brew to see if that makes a difference..... I need a taste diagnosis!
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Re: To single step or to multi step

Unread postby Erick » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:39 pm

This is a very interesting article about the differences between One-step and Multi-step.
http://wittepaard.roodetoren.nl/index.p ... n&Itemid=6
(might even be the one elderberry refers to)

Unfortunatly it's in Dutch, but google translate might do some good work?
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Re: To single step or to multi step

Unread postby Dicko » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:59 pm

richard54 wrote:Appart from curiosity my other reason for wanting a single rest at 66 "or thereabouts is because my beers all have a specific taste which although not unpleasant is different to pub beers. I wondered if this is due to the multi step mash profile.. I going to use a different yeast supplier next brew to see if that makes a difference..... I need a taste diagnosis!



If you are from Australia Richard, then to replicate a standard pub beer you will need to mash low and use lots of sugar in the grist.
It is the only way to make that thin watery muck that they pass of to the masses as "beer" :lol: :lol:

:cheers:
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Re: To single step or to multi step

Unread postby Dan » Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:36 pm

Dicko wrote:
richard54 wrote:Appart from curiosity my other reason for wanting a single rest at 66 "or thereabouts is because my beers all have a specific taste which although not unpleasant is different to pub beers. I wondered if this is due to the multi step mash profile.. I going to use a different yeast supplier next brew to see if that makes a difference..... I need a taste diagnosis!



If you are from Australia Richard, then to replicate a standard pub beer you will need to mash low and use lots of sugar in the grist.
It is the only way to make that thin watery muck that they pass of to the masses as "beer" :lol: :lol:

:cheers:


Hear Hear!!

I haven't managed to replicate a "pub brew" yet - just can't seem to get them to taste so thin and watery damn it - they all seem to taste good :lol:
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Re: To single step or to multi step

Unread postby Elderberry » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:05 am

Actually, I think it might have been this:
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/62204 ... -by-style/

I focused on head retention and a bit on body for my last couple beers (I might have used the same mash profile, actually) based on this. I'll dig up my mash schedules for my last couple beers and post them here.
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Re: To single step or to multi step

Unread postby richard54 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:33 pm

Live in Buckinghamshire :D UK and we have 7 micro breweries within 20 miles. So beers are good.... But we do have very very hard water and have read several threads about effect on taste not to mention PH of course which means i use phosphoric acid (about 10mls for 31L). I usually use a mix of bottled water and tap water. So maybe its not the multi step mash thing at all. Will try upping the bottled water next time i think! Thanks for the "helpful" comments...
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Re: To single step or to multi step

Unread postby kahobro » Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:43 am

I have done both but I will do multi-step only in the future because:
- I can :D
- For a one step mash you need a very accurate thermometer, if it drifts over time consistence will be less than with a multi-step mash
- Efficiency is said to go up on a multi step mash because around or just over 70 °C some extra starch is often released for conversion. Possibly that also happens during heating to mash-out temperature if the heating isn't too fast and might be less for speidel brewers.

Hans
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Re: To single step or to multi step

Unread postby Elderberry » Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:55 am

kahobro wrote:- Efficiency is said to go up on a multi step mash because around or just over 70 °C some extra starch is often released for conversion. Possibly that also happens during heating to mash-out temperature if the heating isn't too fast and might be less for speidel brewers.

Hans


In my opinion, multi-step mashes increase efficiency only because you're more likely to stir the mash than with a single-step. This theory could be easily tested.
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