Overnight mashing

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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby dinnerstick » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:37 pm

as my efficiency went up with longer mashes i just started making larger volumes! i generally make 25L (post-boil kettle volume) instead of 20L.
(that means more beer!)

side note:
to get your specialty malt ratios right, or at least consistent, it is best to get the mash efficiency pretty close in your recipe software. so you may use very different numbers for short vs long mashes.
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby mattp94 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:44 pm

dinnerstick wrote:side note:
to get your specialty malt ratios right, or at least consistent, it is best to get the mash efficiency pretty close in your recipe software. so you may use very different numbers for short vs long mashes.


I'm not sure I quite understand that bit. I would like to be able to adjust the Beersmith profile so that I can get a better prediction on the final out come but are you suggesting that the long mash will give different extaction rates from different types of grain so I should think about adjusting the amount of special malts to suit a particular mash profile?

This is starting to get even more technical now, just as I was thinking I was starting to understand a bit about brewing. :oops:
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby dinnerstick » Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:15 pm

Well, in theory anyways...., Totally hypothetical, if you had a 50% total efficiency brew day and a 100% total efficiency brew day, same volume, same grain bill, and all else was equal, you would end up with (for example) one 1.040 wort and one 1.080. If you diluted the 1.080 down to 1.040 you certainly now have the same gravity, but you may have under-representation of whatever it is in specialty malts that makes them special; roasty flavors, melanoidins, etc., as you have diluted this 2x. I don't know if this is the case, it's more of a speculative hunch, maybe they are extracted at the same rate as the sugars, but I have a suspicion that these are extracted to completion much more quickly. Think of steeping grain for an extract brew. (The alternative hypothesis would be that as long as you continue to extract sugars, you also continue to extract 'specialty' flavors.)
So, if there's any truth to that, then if you're brewing the same recipe but with a much higher efficiency, you would want to scale up all of the grains, rather than use the same grain bill as the lower efficiency and compensate at the end by adding water. That's simple to see by adjusting it in your software, then you either need to scale up the batch size, or scale down the grain amounts.


On the other hand, that may all be a steaming pile of BS... And for sure over small ~5% differences it doesn't make a lick of difference.
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby mattp94 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:41 pm

That does sound plausible but I don't think it will keep me awake at night. So long as my beer tastes nice I won't worry too much about it.
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby BrauTim » Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:30 pm

I'm sure I read somewhere that mash efficiency is based on 80% of the potential of the grain, so 80% real mash efficiency is actually 80% of 80% of the actual amount of sugar that exists in the grain (hope that makes sense!).

I'm sure there is a reference somewhere when I get around to searching for it again (it might have been in a book).
To brew or not to brew, that would be a stupid question !
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby dinnerstick » Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:01 pm

mattp94 wrote:That does sound plausible but I don't think it will keep me awake at night. So long as my beer tastes nice I won't worry too much about it.


same here
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby Nesto » Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:40 am

BrauTim wrote:I'm sure I read somewhere that mash efficiency is based on 80% of the potential of the grain, so 80% real mash efficiency is actually 80% of 80% of the actual amount of sugar that exists in the grain (hope that makes sense!).

I'm sure there is a reference somewhere when I get around to searching for it again (it might have been in a book).

If you use something like Beersmith, it has expected yield in its library of grains. So wheat yield is 84%, but Crystal 40L is 74%. and as BrauTim said, each of those is multiplied by your mash efficiency. Now all this assumes linearity, which I've never researched if yield would be linear throughout the range of mash efficiencies, time, etc. I'm with dinnerstick... beer good = no worries.
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby Elderberry » Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:02 am

Ok, ok, you've convinced me to give an overnight mash a try. Is there any consensus on extended mashout vs extending rests vs a combination of the two? Has anybody had any results they were NOT happy with?
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby dinnerstick » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:34 pm

no unhappy results from me. i do the combination of extended 20 deg and extended mashout. the only potential problem is if you get a big fountain going while you're asleep.
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby Nesto » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:12 am

dinnerstick wrote:no unhappy results from me. i do the combination of extended 20 deg and extended mashout. the only potential problem is if you get a big fountain going while you're asleep.

Yeah, that sucks... trust me.
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby Elderberry » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:09 am

Thanks! I've been lucky and haven't had a fountain yet. For tonight's mash, I'm thinking about using 5% flaked barley, which I've never used before. Any flaked barley horror stories? The rest will be Maris Otter (3.5kg) with maybe a symbolic amount of biscuit thrown in.

I may make a few adjustments, but I'm thinking about a mash schedule something like this:
180 min x 20 deg
15 x 55
45 x 62
100 x 68
200 x 78

That's 9 hours, plus about an hour for ramp up. That should make for a good night's sleep and give me time tomorrow afternoon to mow the lawn and go to the dentist.

Any thoughts on the mash schedule?
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby piet_v » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:58 am

Elderberry wrote:Any thoughts on the mash schedule?

One big waste of energy if you ask me :lol:
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby Elderberry » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:46 am

If I had posted this yesterday, there would be lots of profanity. I've had a good night's sleep and some time to recover, so not it shouldn't be too bad.

I had to go and say I've never had a wort fountain.

Monday night, I got everything ready and proceeded with the overnight mash. I woke up Tuesday morning and went to the basement only to find a very wet table and floor and a beautiful fountain spouting under the lid (No profanity... no profanity...). I did notice that the spilled wort was very clear, so I assumed that some decent conversion took place before the fountain happened. I also assumed that I achieved some decent efficiency, thanks to what others have reported here. So, I stirred the mash, added 2-3 liters of water and let it recirculate for a few minutes at 78. I then sparged with another couple liters and got a reading of about 1.038. Good enough for me. It tasted good with no astringency, so I went with it. After evaporation due to the boil, I had about 19 liters at 1.041. Considering the mess, I'm pretty happy with that. I adjusted my hops according to the new OG, of course.

One thing I noticed is that the beer seemed darker than I expected. I'm guessing the low volume of liquid allowed what was left to caramelize a bit on the elements. Would that make sense?
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby BrauTim » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:10 pm

It feels safer for me to pull the malt pipe before leaving it overnight.
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Re: Overnight mashing: Mashout temp

Unread postby royco » Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:35 am

Last 4 brews have been O/N with good results, using 76°C for mash out. One question: is it necessary to ramp up to 76~78 when the mash temp is around 66°C, or is this just to keep more bugs at bay?
Also, to preempt the dreaded fountain, is it advisable to use rice or oat hulls?
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