Overnight mashing

How to get most out of brewing with your Braumeister? Help others and share your tips/best practices.

Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby MattSR » Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:33 am

Crikey!! How the heck do you fit 17KG of grain into a 50L Braumeister?
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby dinnerstick » Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:19 am

deepbrew wrote:Great Thread! Thinking of doing it myself. Just two question regarding mash shedules.

I use 50l BM and always to it max capacity (16,5-17kg of grain 55l water) and normally do alfa and beta rests also for much longer (40-60min depends on the beer i make). If i will extend beta and alfa rest, would it have any impact on my beer or not? Lets say 90 and 120min for ex.

The second question would be, what are the pros and cons to let my mash sit in 20C water or at 78C overnight? Can i combine them?

Sorry for my bad english ;)

Regards,
DB


your english is fine! there are no cons to extending the sacc rest temperatures, except that the alpha enzymes will slowly lose activity even at lower beta rest temps. so if you are going to do both, i would not prolong the beta rest, 45 minutes or so should do it, you can find graphs of denaturation at different temperatures online. the higher alpha rest can be extended as long as you like, the enzymes are denaturing quickly at these temps anyways. I do a hybrid between the 'late start' strategy of holding on 20 degrees and the 'extended mashout' strategy of 78 for ever. one 255 minute 20 degree step at the beginning and one 255 minute mashout at the end does the trick. i check and adjust mash pH after mashing in and running the pump for 10-15 minutes.
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby deepbrew » Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:35 am

dinnerstick wrote:
deepbrew wrote:Great Thread! Thinking of doing it myself. Just two question regarding mash shedules.

I use 50l BM and always to it max capacity (16,5-17kg of grain 55l water) and normally do alfa and beta rests also for much longer (40-60min depends on the beer i make). If i will extend beta and alfa rest, would it have any impact on my beer or not? Lets say 90 and 120min for ex.

The second question would be, what are the pros and cons to let my mash sit in 20C water or at 78C overnight? Can i combine them?

Sorry for my bad english ;)

Regards,
DB


your english is fine! there are no cons to extending the sacc rest temperatures, except that the alpha enzymes will slowly lose activity even at lower beta rest temps. so if you are going to do both, i would not prolong the beta rest, 45 minutes or so should do it, you can find graphs of denaturation at different temperatures online. the higher alpha rest can be extended as long as you like, the enzymes are denaturing quickly at these temps anyways. I do a hybrid between the 'late start' strategy of holding on 20 degrees and the 'extended mashout' strategy of 78 for ever. one 255 minute 20 degree step at the beginning and one 255 minute mashout at the end does the trick. i check and adjust mash pH after mashing in and running the pump for 10-15 minutes.


Thanks Dinnerstick,
So, the grain quantity does not have any impact on sugar conversion vs. time? I thought the more grain you have the more time you need for specific mash temp in BM...
For ex. full body

60-20C
30-52C
60-63C
90-73C
255-78C
495min
8h 25m

90min in 63C is too much? Ive made a full body IPA and mashed 70mins in 63C and 30min in 73C
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby BrauTim » Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:17 am

deepbrew wrote:Great Thread! Thinking of doing it myself. Just two question regarding mash shedules.

I use 50l BM and always to it max capacity (16,5-17kg of grain 55l water) and normally do alfa and beta rests also for much longer (40-60min depends on the beer i make). If i will extend beta and alfa rest, would it have any impact on my beer or not? Lets say 90 and 120min for ex.



I don't know what the impact would be for longer rests at sacch temps, but if the mash is working for you OK with your current rests then you can just go to mash-out and hold there overnight.


The second question would be, what are the pros and cons to let my mash sit in 20C water or at 78C overnight? Can i combine them?



If you are at mash-out temp for an overnight rest then you are above the temp that nasties could get in and infect the wort, I am not 100% sure, but I think a temp above 65C is in the safe zone for avoiding infection. At 20C you may be risking infection.

Working out the risk of infection is difficult as it will depend on the environment just remember the BM is not a sealed, sterile environment and I believe that some nasties can survive the boil if they have got a hold and could result in problems further along the process (in storage).

The risk of infection could be overstated as I have no personal experience of an infection this way, but it does seem to be best practice to avoid infection.
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby Batz » Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:34 am

Agreed

I overnight mash and have an extended mash-out of 76C-77C, then sparge and boil, no nasties and going to live in there. I overnight mash all my brew days now as I do a double brew....one after the other. Makes brewing a breeze.

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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby dinnerstick » Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:45 am

agree with the others, those are 'safe' temperatures. i have also started over-day mashes, get it running before leaving for work, finish the brew and cook dinner in the evening, clean up the next morning or evening. now there's no such thing as a brewday.
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby ibbones » Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:24 pm

Add my name to the list. I did my first overnight mash last night and finished by 10:30am this morning.
I started with about 5.5kg (12#) of grain as I added water into the BM. My tap water is warm so I had to add ice to bring it down to mash in. Here is my schedule:

20C--160 minutes
52C--30 minuted
63C--60 minutes
73C--90 minutes
78C--155 minutes.
Started last night around 23:00 and by midnight I was finishing my cigar with a cold store bought IPA and ready for bed. Got up at 08:00 and still had time to make coffee while the mash finished. REALLY clear wort with a pre boil of 15.5 brix and after a 70 minute boil with hop additions of 60,15,05 with 1oz (28g) each and finished up with 17 brix (1.070 sg)and it's cooking away right now with SO-4.
Looking for input for my mash schedule. What would you do different and why?

I have an Irish Red ale to brew and was going to do it today or tomorrow but I thing I'll mash it tonight again and see where it comes out. St. Paddies day coming soon.
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby royco » Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:27 am

OK, so I finally tried it and what a pleasure it was. Dinnerstick, I used your mash schedule and did a no-sparge Amber Ale, i.e. filled in all the water at once and hit the volumes on the button. Only change was 77° mash-out.
My one worry is that the wort, post mash, tasted exactly like well-steeped black English tea with sugar. Not particularly astringent, but definitely tannin-like, whereas the night before it was like regular sweet wort.
The pH went down to 5,1 (too low?) and I did not squeeze the mash, just let it drain as I started the boil phase. I hope this works as the process is so much more relaxing.

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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby BrauTim » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:12 am

royco wrote:OK, so I finally tried it and what a pleasure it was. Dinnerstick, I used your mash schedule and did a no-sparge Amber Ale, i.e. filled in all the water at once and hit the volumes on the button. Only change was 77° mash-out.
My one worry is that the wort, post mash, tasted exactly like well-steeped black English tea with sugar. Not particularly astringent, but definitely tannin-like, whereas the night before it was like regular sweet wort.
The pH went down to 5,1 (too low?) and I did not squeeze the mash, just let it drain as I started the boil phase. I hope this works as the process is so much more relaxing.

Royco



I think it could be worthwhile reporting pH levels for overnight mashes because it may provide an indication of adjustments that might be needed for this technique to avoid tannin extraction, could be subtle though, I've not noticed issues yet, but then I haven't monitored pH too closely either.
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby cpa4ny » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:16 am

Did my second overnight mash - pH landed @ perfect 5.3.

In my experience, Bru'n Water calculator predicts the mash pH brilliantly. :drink:
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby peram » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:04 am

Hi all, a rather newbie from Norway here.

I'm thinking of trying an overnight mash and this is the receipe I'm planning on using :
Code: Select all
HOME BREW RECIPE:

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Blonde Ale
Boil Time: 90 min
Batch Size: 25 liters (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 28.5 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.041
Efficiency: 74% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.047
Final Gravity: 1.011
ABV (standard): 4.67%
IBU (tinseth): 33.92
SRM (morey): 4.72

FERMENTABLES:
2 kg - German - Pale Ale (40.1%)
2 kg - German - Pilsner (40.1%)
810 g - German - Carapils (16.2%)
180 g - American - Caramel / Crystal 40L (3.6%)

HOPS:
9.2 g - Summit, Type: Pellet, AA: 16.2, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 16.43
22.5 g - Premiant, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.9, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 12.18
5.5 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.2, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 2.77
22.5 g - Premiant, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.9, Use: Boil for 2 min, IBU: 2.08
5.5 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.2, Use: Boil for 2 min, IBU: 0.47

YEAST:
White Labs - California Ale Yeast WLP001
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid


Do any of you have any input regarding the timing of the steps ? I'm planning on doing the mashing during the night and remove the maltpipe in the morning.

regs and thanks in advance

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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby BrauTim » Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:14 am

Here's what I'm doing overnight tonight for a Dry Belgian triple (Yeastbay Dry Belgian is apparently up to 100% attenuator ) :

Mash-in 38°C Rest for 10 mins and stir
Rest at 63°C for an hour, stir halfway through
Rest at 71°C for 30 mins
Rest at 78°C overnight (leave pumps and everything running, cover with an old duvet, I may try clingfilm to prevent any loss)

Pull malt pipe in the morning, sparge with 2l, maybe a bit more if it looks like some volume may have evaporated overnight.

Boil.
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby RobW » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:01 am

I've been meaning to do this for a while and finally got around to it this weekend.
I mashed in a Munich lager late Sunday night, pulled the malt pipe at 7.30 Monday morning and had the fermenter full and all cleaned up by 10.30.
Efficiency was excellent - shooting for 1056 OG and ended with 1060 and the clarity of the wort was brilliant as noted by others.
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby Dicko » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:34 pm

I did two overnight mashes last weekend in a bid to catch up on stocks of beer that were seriously depleted over Xmas holidays :lol:

The two overnight mashes followed by two standard brews the following days allowed me to produce four different beers in two days.

Maybe you are right Batz, I should have bought a 50 litre model. :lol:

:cheers:
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby BrauTim » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:22 pm

I measured my overnight mash pH last weekend, measured at pH 5.4 throughout the mash and had fallen to pH 5.1 when I got around to pulling the malt pipe 14 hours later. My thoughts from this very short experiment is that as long as you have your water chemistry sorted, then I think the buffering capability of the mash is enough to prevent it dropping too low (I was brewing with light malts). Unfortunately I forgot to measure Water Alkalinity before I mashed-in (after treatment), something I need to do in future overnight mashes to start to draw any conclusions.

All my overnight mashes so far have added 10-12% efficiency from an average 80% for normal mash time to 90%+.

Does anyone know what happens to the long and short chain sugars when a mash lasts this long assuming the temp is held at 78°C ? Even though amylases should be denatured I would have thought that the longer mash might introduce other chemical processes that wouldn't normally be seen in the sub 3 hour mashes.
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