Overnight mashing

How to get most out of brewing with your Braumeister? Help others and share your tips/best practices.

Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby perdido » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:09 am

Researchers at VLB Berlin do not ageee with Dr Bamforth. In fact they say that the effect of Hot Side Aeration in the beer industry is generally under estimated.
We'll see if I can actually notice any staling in this batch.
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby dinnerstick » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:31 pm

then we're all doomed! hard to test anyways. from my few overnight mash batches there has been nothing obviously different in time from normal mash beers, but that's not very scientific.
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby niels » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:59 pm

I have not had any beers that went bad within a year, so I'm sure that my brewing methods are sufficient for my needs. As soon as I want to brew beers to keep I will be a bit more anal about Hot Side Aeration.

Just chill and have a homebrew ;)

- Niels
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby Cervantes » Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:18 am

My beers never last long enough to mature let alone go off...............
Cheers :cheers:
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby perdido » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:52 am

Cervantes wrote:My beers never last long enough to mature let alone go off...............


My thoughts too.
I'm not so worried about hsa as it may sound. In fact the bm design is not the best to prevent hsa. During mashing the wort is continuously being aerated to an extent.
But I've never overnight mashed before and 2 or 3 hours at 78ºC may or may not have a negative impact on the final beer.
I'd rather have an extended rest at 20ºC (3 or 4 hours) if there is no significant acidification.

From what I remember reading, when German brewers want to make a sour mash for pH adjustment they let it sit at around 45ºC (a work around the reinheitsgebot that forbids the addition of phosphoric acid, ie). So 20ºC may be low enough that lactic acid bacteria is not too active.
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby royco » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:50 pm

OK, I'm sold. Overnight mash, no sparge, no chill. Sounds like happiness. Playing golf tomorrow pm so may start this brew, an APA, mid morning then try and limit 19th hole activity.
Will then have the option of doing the boil tomorrow evening or letting it soak overnight at 76°C. Will this be too long?
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Re: PH Control -- Overnight mashing

Unread postby royco » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:47 pm

Trying overnight mashing for the first time on a simple lager recipe. My water, filtered, has a PH of around 5,6 and the mash ph at 76° overnight resting stage is 5,95. I have never adjusted ph before, but this seems slightly high.
It's probably too late now to do anything as it is also a no-sparge batch and I have read somewhere that you must not add acid directly to the mash. Will it be OK at 5,95 or should/could something be done? Any input will be appreciated.

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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby BrauTim » Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:54 am

You could acidify the mash directly using Lactic acid, however you may experience sour flavours if you use too much, depends on the style of beer. If you were using acidified malt as part of the grist then the recommendation is that above 5% will start to introduce sour flavours, I'm not sure how that translates into liquid Lactic Acid additions. I don't think other acids can be used at this stage without having a flavour effect of some sort.

I have used this method in small quantities as an emergency measure and it did work, also be aware that your pH should drop as the mash progresses, however I'm guessing that the drop may have already happened given that you are measuring at the end of the mash, which would indicate that your pH was even higher at the start of the mash to get down to 5.95 and Lactic may be a waste of time.

Personally I don't like leaving the malt pipe in overnight, I pull the malt pipe and leave the sweet wort at mashout temp overnight, in fact following mashout you could probably allow the temp to drop a bit for an overnighter to save energy and liquid evaporation with no detrimental effect on the finished beer.
To brew or not to brew, that would be a stupid question !
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby royco » Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:13 pm

Thanks Brautim, good advice. I was going to do an Amber Ale as I have done a few before and could compare. Problem is my supplier let me down with the wheat malt and carared, so decided to do my first lager.
Probably a stupid idea as this is more technical than an ale and I have no reference point. Do you know of a way to predict mash ph given the starting liquor ph? Our water is about 5,6 ph and TDS (or was it TA?) is around 50~100, so the water is quite good. Maybe adding a few drops phosphoric acid to bring it to 5 would have the desired effect and would be safer than adding to the mash?
Thanks for responding.
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby Luis Coentrao » Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:04 pm

Hi Rocyo,

Software called Brun'water is great!! Thanks to Capd4ny :beerbang:
Also, I started to measure total alkalinity and pH every brewday. Thanks to Tim :beerbang:

Other thing, stating John Palmer, brewer's must control mash pH rather than focusing on water pH. Off course, our water chemstry is clearly important, but the famous pH 5.4-5.6 is mash pH at room temperature. To that, we must start mashing and dough in, and, after that, check mash pH. The software suggests the quantity of phosphoric acid (the one use) or other one to add to the mash. Is important to titulate the acid addition in orther to avoid pH drop below our aim!

I hope it helped.
:cheers:
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby royco » Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:43 am

Thank you Luis. I have downloaded the software and it looks quite comprehensive. Wish I'd paid more attention in chemistry class! Now to get a report from our chaotic municipal offices.............
Interesting that you say you adjust the mash ph with phosphoric acid. I have some but was scared to use it in the mash after reading elsewhere that it was not best practice, and you need minute additions.
Anyway, armed with Bru'n Water it will be easy next time. :beer:
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby dinnerstick » Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:23 pm

as luis points out, the effect of acid additions is dependent on the buffering capacity of your mash, which in turn depends on what's in your water. as one example (can post the water report if interested) my last mash started out at 5.8, and i added 8 ml of 80% phosphoric acid (to a mash with 23L water) to drop the pH to 5.3.
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby perdido » Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:44 pm

I also use phosphoric acid. This is standard practice in the brewing industry outside of Germany.
You have to use very small amounts. I add about 1,5ml (about 23 l mash) and then let it recirculate before measuring again.
My water is very soft and I do add some calcium chloride, sometimes also calcium sulphate depending on the recipe.
I do this at the start of the mash, to get it to optimum pH for enzymes.
Most of the time I don't have to adjust pH... I think that my water source is variable depending on the time of the year.

It is also common to adjust pH in the boil but I don't bother.
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby Fritzkellerbrau » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:02 pm

Hi Roy

I get Joburgs water report on the web (published monthly). Try Umgeni Water for Dbn.

Cheers
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Re: Overnight mashing

Unread postby royco » Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:23 pm

Thanks Dirk, I will try that when I get back from Croatia (leaving tomorrow for 2 weeks). How are you enjoying your new baby? The gestation period was about 9 months wasn't it? :)
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