Big issues with DMS.

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Big issues with DMS.

Unread postby Swaroga » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:51 pm

Hi all.

It's my second brew with BM50 and even though the fermentation isn't finished yet I sense already DMS sweet corn in it.

My first brew was a complete disaster. I covered the kettle with the lid, boiled German pils malt for only 80 minutes and the cooling process was a bit long since the water in my counter flow chiller wasn't cold enough.

Second brew I tried to fix it. The brewing was for 110minutes, I used several different types of pale malts that I heard have lesser amount of SSM and ofcourse the lid was off. The cooling was done with the BM submersible chiller and was quite fast. Especially from 90° to 60°.

When I took a sample from the fermenter the corn was back.

Since I tried my best to boil off the DMS during 110minutes with the lid off even during the mashing I wonder what went wrong.
The boiling not enough violent ?
Bad mashing program ? But still even then it should evaporate ?
Not enough evaporation ?

I mashed 5kg German Pils, 4kg Belgian Pale, 2,6kg Munton's Pearl and some cara and chocolate.
I mashed it for 50min in 63° then went for 25min in 73°. Then 5 minutes at 79° then sparging with 80° water.

I used Belle Saison yeast from Lallemand.


Next test is tomorrow and this time I want to mash it in BM but thinking of transferring it into a normal kettle that I can put on a gas and boil the heck out of this DMS misery.

Please let me know if there is something I might do more to prevent it.
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Re: Big issues with DMS.

Unread postby Luis Coentrao » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:04 pm

Hi,
First, are you sure what you feel is DMS?
If it is other aroma, p.ex. diacetyl or ester, probably the problem is in the cold side (fermentation) rather than in the hot side! Try to review your fermentation temperature control, yeast pitch rate and wort aeration.
Keep it simple! Just a guess :beer:
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Re: Big issues with DMS.

Unread postby Batz » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:45 pm

This is correct, if it is DMS it is either the yeast or and infection.

This is a good read

http://www.professorbeer.com/articles/diacetyl.html

Batz
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Re: Big issues with DMS.

Unread postby whitegoose » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:26 am

I would be making sure it is DMS first - do you know anybody who can verify you - preferably a BJCP judge or similar? I've taken an off flavour to a BJCP at my local brew club before and he gave me some great info.

If it is DMS, then I'm not sure whether it would be anything but the boil - it would not be your mash profile.... But I've not had DMS problems before and I usually boil for 90 minutes and it is not a vigorous boil at all. maybe the weak boil mixed with the specific grains? Not sure sorry mate.

But I would be very sure that it is DMS before you go too far...
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Re: Big issues with DMS.

Unread postby Dicko » Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:01 am

Got to agree with the others, check your fermentation temperatures.
I had an amber ale that was in a secondary and I accidentally froze it.
Because I was impatient I heated the wort a bit with a work light so I could keg it.
It turned from a nice smooth American Amber to a beer that tasted like corn. :roll: :cry:

If you are boiling for more than 60 minutes and you have your BM set on maximum of 102 deg and the lid is off and then chilling rapidly then you should eliminate most DMS unless the grain is a brand that is really bad for it.
If this is the case then an extra 30 minutes of boil time should fix it.
I have read that most DMS is caused by slow cooling in the home brew situation.

:cheers:
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Re: Big issues with DMS.

Unread postby Nesto » Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:44 am

2 things:
1. How fast are you down below 60C?

2. What Dicko said, make sure...
Dicko wrote: you have your BM set on maximum of 102 deg

for the boil.
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Re: Big issues with DMS.

Unread postby NewEnglandBrewer » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:58 pm

I agree with the others. You seem to be given it a long enough boil required to get rid of DMS causing chemicals. Yet, to be safe, I would increase your standard boil time to 90 minutes.

Since you are from Brussels, I doubt you are unfamiliar with the various flavors generated by Belgian yeasts.

But, is it possible you are simply surprised by the unexpected? When I first encountered Belgian style beers, I was surprised by what I thought were STRANGE flavors. Note that these strange flavors are flavors I've come to like and expect whenever I use a Belgian style yeast.
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Re: Big issues with DMS.

Unread postby niels » Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:48 pm

Hi Swaroga,

I didn't notice that you are from Brussels. I work in Evere and live close to Leuven. So if you want we can swap a beer and I'll try to get you my opinion.

I suppose you mainly use the same malts as I do (Weyermann, Castle Malting, Dingemans, ...). Normally I only boil for about 75 minutes and never had a DMS problem (and I even dare to boil with the kettle half covered).

Send me a message and we'll work something out.

- Niels
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Re: Big issues with DMS.

Unread postby perdido » Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:48 pm

As others have mentioned, get a second opinion to make sure you are getting DMS and not other off flavours.

If you are using standard malts and boiling for 60 minutes uncovered, it should be enough to drive off most of the DMS.
You may get some levels of DMS but nothing as powerful as you describe.

It can also come from a bacterial infection. How are you cleaning and sanitising your fermenters?

Check this site for a summary of off flavours:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html
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