Sour Mash in BM

How to get most out of brewing with your Braumeister? Help others and share your tips/best practices.

Sour Mash in BM

Unread postby dinnerstick » Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:02 pm

or - how to defile your expensive bit of kit with nasty bacteria...
actually it's not a sour mash but souring your wort. i think someone on HBT suggested this a while back, i have been meaning to try it and finally got around to it. i'm not an experienced sour masher, have done a couple tiny sour worts when my flemish red needed more lactic acid in the blend.
technique:
well, there's not much to it. mash and lauter as usual, then cool with immersion chiller to low 40's (i did 41 for no real reason), inoculate with a handful of fresh malt (or add a lacto strain if you want to be fancy), cover the surface of the wort with cling film as you want to keep it as anaerobic as possible, set BM to hold at your low 40's temp, leave it a few days. mine has been in for around 56 hours, the pH dropped from 5.3 to 3.4.
when it's at your desired pH, carry on with brewing; boil it, chill, ferment with something yeasty.

just realized in the pic the temp probe isn't plugged in, so no auto temp correction... went back and rechecked, it's spot on.
oh yeah- the smell, not too bad actually, expected more rot/barf but it's sort of hay/funky. girlfriend said it smells like 'heiderhoning' = heather honey, a very distinctive local delicacy. taste: immediate lactic punch, strongly sour, then it tastes like.... wort.
in the BM pic, that's the plastic wrap bubbling up, not a pellicle!
DSC_0549.jpg

DSC_0550.jpg
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Re: Sour Mash in BM

Unread postby Tipsy » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:42 pm

dinnerstick wrote:in the BM pic, that's the plastic wrap bubbling up, not a pellicle!



Thank god for that! :shock: it looked horrible :lol:

Good on you for trying it....I won't be.

Let us know how it turns out.
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Re: Sour Mash in BM

Unread postby Cervantes » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:24 am

Tipsy wrote:
Good on you for trying it....I won't be.



I'm pretty confident that I won't be trying this in the near future either..............

But then I've never tried a sour beer. If I did I may find out that I like it.

All credit for giving it a go though.
Cheers :cheers:
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Re: Sour Mash in BM

Unread postby niels » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:07 am

I didn't try a sour mash yet, but it looks like easy-peasy with the Braumeisters temperature control. Certainly something I have to try!

How does the cling film handle the pumping during the "holding temperature" stage?

Basic Brewing has a nice video about a Sour Berliner Weisse:


He flushes his kettle with CO2 and uses a smoker to keep the temperature.

Cervantes wrote:But then I've never tried a sour beer. If I did I may find out that I like it.

I suggest you run to the store right now and try some nice sours and report back!

I had a bottle of Cuvée René with my neighbour last night. It tastes so damn well after a hot day!

- Niels
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Re: Sour Mash in BM

Unread postby Cervantes » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:50 am

niels wrote:
Cervantes wrote:But then I've never tried a sour beer. If I did I may find out that I like it.

I suggest you run to the store right now and try some nice sours and report back!

- Niels


Niels,

Easier said than done here in Western Australia mate.

It's only in recent years that we've been able to get anything other than the Australia megaswill.

Craft beers are taking off, but bottle shops that stock a good range are few and far between.

Price also becomes an issue with most decent craft beers costing anything between the equivalent of 3.50 and 7.00 Euros for a small bottle.

Will keep looking though as I'd hate to think that I was missing out on something good on the beer front.

That's the beauty of home brewing, once you find something that you like, you can always then get pretty close making it yourself.
Cheers :cheers:
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Re: Sour Mash in BM

Unread postby dinnerstick » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:32 am

cervantes, if you ever find yourself i the beerier countries of europe, or even in the US now where there is an exploding sour beer scene (although i have only ever had one) you owe it to yourself to sample a few. for some people the first sip is shocking, the second head scratching, and the third brings epiphany! at least with lambic and its cousins gueuze, kriek, etc., and i'm only talking about the proper sour ones, not the candy-sweetened crap that is also, for some unknown reason, drunk.
this beer is going to be a multi-hybrid; the souring is like a berlinner, but the fermentation will be with the brett strain i normally use for farmhouse styles, and then it will have fruit added at the end. no hops at all.
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Sour Mash in BM

Unread postby Cervantes » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:56 am

Dinnerstick,

If I'm ever over that way I'll give it a try.

I'll try most things once.

I worked in Munich for a while and tried many European styles there and didn't find much that I didn't like.

Although I never did like the way that the bar tenders would very carefully pour a beer so as to leave the yeast in the bottom of the bottle and then stick their thumb over the top, shake the bottle, and pour all of the yeast into your glass.

But then I've been called a philistine before.........

I've read a lot about sour beers and will certainly give one a try if the opportunity arises.

Cheers
Andy
Cheers :cheers:
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Re: Sour Mash in BM

Unread postby Tipsy » Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:39 am

Cervantes wrote:
Tipsy wrote:
Good on you for trying it....I won't be.



I'm pretty confident that I won't be trying this in the near future either..............

But then I've never tried a sour beer. If I did I may find out that I like it.

All credit for giving it a go though.


Just to clarify, I do like sour beers. I just don't know about doing a sour mash.

I may one day do a sour ferment but I have heard stories about peoples breweries getting infected.

Hope it goes well :beerbang:
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Re: Sour Mash in BM

Unread postby Tipsy » Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:02 am

niels wrote:I didn't try a sour mash yet, but it looks like easy-peasy with the Braumeisters temperature control. Certainly something I have to try!

How does the cling film handle the pumping during the "holding temperature" stage?

Basic Brewing has a nice video about a Sour Berliner Weisse:


He flushes his kettle with CO2 and uses a smoker to keep the temperature.

Cervantes wrote:But then I've never tried a sour beer. If I did I may find out that I like it.

I suggest you run to the store right now and try some nice sours and report back!

I had a bottle of Cuvée René with my neighbour last night. It tastes so damn well after a hot day!

- Niels


That was a good video Niels.
Seems sour mashing is safer than fermenting because of the boil.

I'll be watching this thread closely.
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Re: Sour Mash in BM

Unread postby dinnerstick » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:44 am

i did a short 15 min boil, just to pasteurize and hopefully get rid of DMS (still not sure about that with these short boils), cooled and into the fermenter. really smelled nice, if peculiar, but none of the sick smell at all. final pH was just under 3.4 after 3 days at 51 degrees. the wort was quite murky after the boil, bits of pellicle did form and then cook and stick to everything, but cleaning was fine and the BM is back to being shiny and safe. fermentation took off straight away, the brett is happy at that pH.
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Re: Sour Mash in BM

Unread postby cpa4ny » Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:34 am

dinnerstick wrote:i did a short 15 min boil, just to pasteurize and hopefully get rid of DMS (still not sure about that with these short boils), cooled and into the fermenter. really smelled nice, if peculiar, but none of the sick smell at all. final pH was just under 3.4 after 3 days at 51 degrees. the wort was quite murky after the boil, bits of pellicle did form and then cook and stick to everything, but cleaning was fine and the BM is back to being shiny and safe. fermentation took off straight away, the brett is happy at that pH.


Hi DS - which Brett strain did you use?

I just pitched Brett Brux into my Saison, which was initially fermented with WLP566 (Saison II).

Yesterday brewed a Brett Brux Trois IPA - https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/brett-trois-ipa-5 (essentially, a BYO recipe from a couple of issues ago).

A nice lactic sour is surely on my to-brew list. :beer:
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Re: Sour Mash in BM

Unread postby dinnerstick » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:09 am

I used the WLP brett brux (650) on this one, i use it for farmhouse style ales, as primary fermenter it gives a little funk but not overwhelming. i have done a couple farmhouses with brux, lambicus (also the WLP strain), trois mixed- a bit more differenter (yeah i just typed that) than the single strain, but not hugely so. i have only done one beer using brett in the traditional/orval way, it was a winter bok-style beer that finished a bit too thick, so i steeped some rolled oats into a nasty protein/glucan tea, added that and dosed it with b brux. i took a year but really did something magical.
i also use the trois strain for two beers, a bigger 6-7% IPA and a 3.5-4% hoppy session pale. i absolutely love that strain, i would marry it if that were possible.

this sour mash beer is now kegged and carbing up in advance of the kimchi festival in amsterdam this coming saturday. even though it's still a bit murky (takes about a week in the 1 degree fridge to be well cleared), it's really tasty, i predict it's going to be emptied in short order. it fermented out pretty well but a bit slower than i'm used to with this strain, maybe due to pH? no idea. i added raspberry puree (cue prince song), gave it another week, into the keg at 1.012 and 4.3% ABV. would probably go lower in time but won't get the chance.
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Re: Sour Mash in BM

Unread postby niels » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:17 pm

Did you make the raspberry puree yourself? If not, where did you buy it?

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Re: Sour Mash in BM

Unread postby dinnerstick » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:05 pm

this one was fresh, so it was really expensive. in the past i have used the 1kg puree from sligro in beers and it's perfect. (i don't think you can tell the difference, or maybe the store bought puree has more flavor...) anyways, it's just pasteurized raspberries with nothing added. does sligro exist on your side of the border? if not, a restaurant supplier with bulk foods. the raspberry porter recipe in 'brewing classic styles', 20L with one 1kg jar of the puree. from now on it's sligro for me.
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Re: Sour Mash in BM

Unread postby niels » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:15 pm

dinnerstick wrote:this one was fresh, so it was really expensive. in the past i have used the 1kg puree from sligro in beers and it's perfect. (i don't think you can tell the difference, or maybe the store bought puree has more flavor...) anyways, it's just pasteurized raspberries with nothing added. does sligro exist on your side of the border? if not, a restaurant supplier with bulk foods. the raspberry porter recipe in 'brewing classic styles', 20L with one 1kg jar of the puree. from now on it's sligro for me.

When reading Brewing Classic Styles I came across the mention of "fruit puree". I quick look around didn't reveal a supplier in Belgium, but I didn't search that hard. There is no Sligro in Belgium, but I see there are some close to the border. If I ever go to Maastricht or Breda or ... again I will try to plan a trip past them.

Is it called "fruit puree" in Dutch too?

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