Using Braumeister with Williams Warn Personal Brewery

How to get most out of brewing with your Braumeister? Help others and share your tips/best practices.

Using Braumeister with Williams Warn Personal Brewery

Unread postby neutron » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:07 am

Hi has anyone attempted using the Braumeister with Williams Warn and how was the outcome of their attempts?
neutron
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:39 am
Model: 20 litres

Re: Using Braumeister with Williams Warn Personal Brewery

Unread postby Cervantes » Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:22 am

I know that one of the members here Wobbly has been using his BM in conjunction with a WW Personal Brewery.
Cheers :cheers:
Andy
User avatar
Cervantes
 
Posts: 475
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:54 am
Location: Cervantes, Western Australia
Model: 20 litres

Re: Using Braumeister with Williams Warn Personal Brewery

Unread postby Wobbly » Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:31 am

Yes I have a Williamswarn and have had it since December 2013 and completed about 6 brews in it to date. Haven't brewed for a few months now as currently away from home until the end of August.
For those interested I started a topic in another forum on the subject of the WW and the "discussion" can be viewed here (hope that link works) but unfortunately it degenerated into a lot of rubbish from posters that I believe had never seen a unit or taken the time to fully understand it's capability. If you are inclined read the 20 plus pages and form your own opinions.

At the outset I must say I am very impressed with the standard of build it is a quality engineered and manufactured machine that will allow you to do full pressure fermentation (range 0.5 to 3.0 bar), dump the sediment during fermentation, has a jacketed glycol refrigerant heating/cooling system (range 1C to 28C), affords the ability to add colloidal clarification agent - agitate the beer and then dump the yeast/trub all while still at 1C and under pressure (range 0.5 to 3.0 bar), all stainless steel and has a wide 300mm opening to facilitate easy cleaning. The fermented, chilled and naturally carbonated beer can be served straight from the system or you can very easily transfer the finished beer to kegs or bottles still under pressure. I won't go into specific details unless requested suffice to say that you can view the full owners manual on the Williamswarn Forum and there is also a members forum where various topics are discussed. Like this forum visitors can view subject material without being required to "register and log in"

I know of no other stainless steel conical fermenter that comes with a built in glycol cooling/heating system, enables pressure fermentation up to 4.0 bar, has built in trub/yeast removal, and serves naturally carbonated, brilliantly clear chilled beer.

In my view the system was basically designed to be used with "extracts" which during the manufacturing process have been centrifuged to reduce the hot/cold break/kettle trub. The system will equally produce quality beers from the fresh wort that I (and others) produce. The one issue being that the sediment bottle is only 1 litre capacity and while this may/will contain the trub/settled yeast etc from a beer made with extract, I have found this not to be the case with my fresh wort requiring me to undertake additional clarification steps. This should not be seen as a major issue or fatal flaw it just adds another step (day) in the process of going "grain to brain". I have identified that I need to improve the clarification of my wort in the BM to illuminate some of my lazy practices that have crept in over time before transferring to the WW and have a number of actions to implement when I resume brewing later this year. Again I wont go into details at this time unless specifically requested.

The sales pitch talks about producing Ales in 7 days and Pilsners/lagers in 9 days using extracts with a starting OG of around 1040 and dry yeast. My experience using fresh wort produced in my BM with OG of around 1045-1050 I need to add 1 to 3 days to these times to go from "grain to brain" mostly to do with additional clarification steps. I haven't used liquid yeasts as yet but see no reason why they wouldn't work, just need to make a starter.

The literature talks about capacity being 23 litres but I have found if using a non aggressive dry yeast I can increase this to a starting vol of about 26lt. I haven't tried using a yeast that will produce a large Krausen but I know of one brewer who has and commented that it was contained within the WW (but only just) I spoke to Ian Williams about what would happen if the Krausen was so aggressive that it exited through the VPRV and his comment was that it shouldn't be an issue just something that would require extra care when cleaning

This has become quite a long post so I will stop here and see if any members wants further information

Cheers

Wobbly
Wobbly
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:57 am
Location: Bibra Lake Western Australia 6163
Model: 20 litres

Re: Using Braumeister with Williams Warn Personal Brewery

Unread postby Cervantes » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:34 am

Wobbly,

Is there an option to fit a larger sediment bottle? Would this provide a solution and allow you to mash and boil as you normally would?
Cheers :cheers:
Andy
User avatar
Cervantes
 
Posts: 475
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:54 am
Location: Cervantes, Western Australia
Model: 20 litres

Re: Using Braumeister with Williams Warn Personal Brewery

Unread postby Wobbly » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:58 am

Hi Cevantes

That's one option I have given some thought to. The current sediment bottle is a 32oz (1lt) Nalgene wide mouth drink bottle and I have seen "somewhere" (I think) that you can get a 48oz (1.5Lt) Nalgene "style" bottle but have not been able to find the reference again!!!! and I'm not sure of the dimensions - length will be the critical issues

The issue with carry over from the BM is I think mostly to do with my practices as a couple of "other" fresh wort-WW users on the WW forum don't seem to have the same issue. I currently have a right angled dip tube on the inlet to the BM tap and this is drawing from very near the bottom of the BM so is most likely sucking up quite a lot of break material even after I have whirlpooled. When I was fermenting in a "plastic" fermenter this wasn't an issue as there was plenty of room on the bottom of the FV below the outlet tap to accommodate the break material and yeast sediment. Not so in a 1lt Nalgene bottle on the WW!! At times it just means/requires an extra clarification stage and some care to make sure you don't get a yeast sediment/trub blockage in the serving line - no big deal. I haven't had a blockage but I understand a couple of WW owners in the USA have experienced an issue and evidently it can be a pain to clear

What am I going to do about it.

Cool to around 30C instead of 40C and get more cold break to settle out
Do away with the right angled dip tube on the BM outlet
Use a Blichmann Hop Rocket with some flowers (and pellets) and pump to recirculate the BM wort whilst cooling with the immersion chiller for a while after the "hop stand" This will also establish the whirlpool (hopefully!!)
Once down to 30C whirlpool and after the whirlpool let the wort stand for say 30 mins and then drain to WW and maybe tilt the BM to get the last

That's "todays' plan anyway

Cheers

Wobbly
Wobbly
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:57 am
Location: Bibra Lake Western Australia 6163
Model: 20 litres

Re: Using Braumeister with Williams Warn Personal Brewery

Unread postby Dicko » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:29 pm

Hi wobbly
I have a BM 20 and I get consistently clear beers into the fermenter by using an immersion chiller to chill the wort and then I let it stand for 45 minutes to one hour after it is chilled.
I dont bother to try and whirlpool the wort as I believe it is a waste of time in the BM due to the element and the centre rod. I do not use a pick up tube and my software is set to allow a four litre loss to trub.

After the wort has settled out I drain the wort into a fermenter and when the wort gets to just above the tap outlet I lift the back of the BM and place a 25mm block of wood under the back leg.
I then let it drain until it just starts to let trub run in and then turn the tap off.

The end result is only very little trub in the fermenter at the end of the ferment and a very clean sample of yeast should you want to reuse or wash it.
I don't use a hop sock but one would help as well to save a little more trub.
By doing this I would imagine that it would only require one or two dumps of the trub at the most with a one litre botlle.

:cheers:
The worst thing that can happen if I die is that my wife will sell all my brewing equipment for what I told her I paid for it
User avatar
Dicko
 
Posts: 1179
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:25 pm
Location: Port Lincoln South Oz
Model: 20 litres

Re: Using Braumeister with Williams Warn Personal Brewery

Unread postby Andy_Chil » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:09 pm

I'll second Dicko's approach. Always crystal clear wort after 30mins rest at 30c. I use an old door jam.
User avatar
Andy_Chil
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:31 am
Location: South Gippsland
Model: 20 litres

Re: Using Braumeister with Williams Warn Personal Brewery

Unread postby Wobbly » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:25 am

Hi Dicko and Andy_Chil

Thanks for your comments re your processes. I had come to the realization a few weeks ago after discussion with "two other BM-WW owners" that the right angle dip tube coupled with not cooling low enough was/is most likely the source of most of my break/trub.

Prior to purchasing the WW I had adopted the practice of only cooling to around 40c due to the temperature of my tap water and then transferring to the FV and placing it in a fridge over night and pitching the yeast the following morning and this practice carried over to the WW and using the glycol jacket to reach pitching temperature.

Ditching the dip tube, chilling to close as I can to 20C (immersion chiller and ice water) will go a long way to achieving a much clearer wort and recirculating through the hop rocket will just add a bit more "flavour/aroma" with maybe an added benefit of removing more/most of the break/trub.

The fact that I currently need to do the extra clarification doesn't impact on the finished beer taste/quality it's just one of those 1% improvements I am chasing.

Cheers

wobbly
Wobbly
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:57 am
Location: Bibra Lake Western Australia 6163
Model: 20 litres

Re: Using Braumeister with Williams Warn Personal Brewery

Unread postby Dicko » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:42 pm

Hi Wobbly,
Where I live, my town water in summer is around 25 deg c so at best I can get to around 30 deg c using it.
I chill with it to 30 deg then use an ice slurry in 40 litres of water which I have in an old 60 litre fermenter with a submersible pump that I recirculate the chilled water through the immersion chiller.
By using this method I have got wort as low as 9 deg c in summer and the wort after settling is as clear as filtered beer.
:beer:
The worst thing that can happen if I die is that my wife will sell all my brewing equipment for what I told her I paid for it
User avatar
Dicko
 
Posts: 1179
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:25 pm
Location: Port Lincoln South Oz
Model: 20 litres

Re: Using Braumeister with Williams Warn Personal Brewery

Unread postby Wobbly » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:56 am

Cervantes wrote:Wobbly,

Is there an option to fit a larger sediment bottle? Would this provide a solution and allow you to mash and boil as you normally would?


Cevantes

Found the reference to the larger "Nalgene bottle"

It is listed as a "Nalgene Silo" and is 48oz vs the current one which is only 32oz has the same wide mouth thread, same overall diameter but is 3inches (75mm) longer so it will be a matter of whether it can be accommodated at the bottom of the WW unit.

Something I will progress further when I return home in about a month

Cheers

Wobbly
Wobbly
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:57 am
Location: Bibra Lake Western Australia 6163
Model: 20 litres

Re: Using Braumeister with Williams Warn Personal Brewery

Unread postby Dicko » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:11 pm

Wobbly, if the bottle is too long you could raise the WW a bit with blocks of wood or spacers of some form under the legs.

:cheers:
The worst thing that can happen if I die is that my wife will sell all my brewing equipment for what I told her I paid for it
User avatar
Dicko
 
Posts: 1179
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:25 pm
Location: Port Lincoln South Oz
Model: 20 litres

Re: Using Braumeister with Williams Warn Personal Brewery

Unread postby Wobbly » Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:06 am

An update of where I am at with improving the clarity of my wort from the BM to the WW.
1) I have sourced a SS bowel and made a domed lid as per Dicko's design detailed in another topic
2) I use a hop sock for all hop additions
3) I now chill to 80C and hold it there while steeping some aroma/flavour hops for about 15 to 30 mins
4) I cool using tap water until I get to around 40C
5) I then use a pond pump in a bucket of ice slurry to continue to chill to 20C or lower
6) Whirl pool (not sure why) and then allow to stand for 60 mins for cold break to settle
7) Drain slowly to WW until wort at about the level of the drain tap and then stop as cold break is just starting to drain into WW
8) Wort is crystal clear and so far the amount of trub/break material can be contained within the WW sediment bottle
9) Similar to Dicko I leave about 31/2 to 4lt of thick trub slurry in the bottom of the BM no big deal as before I was seeing about the same amount of break material settling in the WW It's just easier to handle in the BM
10) The trub slurry could be harvested and filtered/allowed to settle into a container to recover about 2lts of wort and then either added back into the WW or frozen for future use in starters or added to a future brew after re-boiling
11) As indicated in an earlier post I have obtained a Blichmann Hop Rocket to use in conjunction with a pump and flowers/rice hulls to act as a filter for the wort by recirculated back into the BM whilst cooling but haven't used this as yet

So by improving my brewing practices - Improved boil vigour and improved cooling down to 20C (Ales) - I have largely illuminated the issues I was having with the amount of break material in the WW

Cheers

Wobbly
Wobbly
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:57 am
Location: Bibra Lake Western Australia 6163
Model: 20 litres

Re: Using Braumeister with Williams Warn Personal Brewery

Unread postby Dicko » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:49 pm

Hi Wobbly,

I am pleased you are on top of it now with your WW, I know you copped some crap on another forum.

Please let us know how the hop rocket goes.
I assume your comment re the rice hulls in the hoprocket are so you can use pellets. Is this so?

:cheers:
The worst thing that can happen if I die is that my wife will sell all my brewing equipment for what I told her I paid for it
User avatar
Dicko
 
Posts: 1179
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:25 pm
Location: Port Lincoln South Oz
Model: 20 litres

Re: Using Braumeister with Williams Warn Personal Brewery

Unread postby Griffin » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:44 pm

Hello,

Thanks for the information. I am newer to brewing (about a year) and I have a WW machine. I have been very impressed with the beers I am able to make. I have been using mostly extract plus specialty grain kits and partial mash kits from Northern Brewer. My question is how much better would you expect beers to come out using all grain? I see the BM as a perfect all grain companion if I was to switch to all grain. I know in the past extract kits were spotty at best and not very complex (mostly 1 base grain). With the newer complex LME, specialty grains and plenty of hop varieties available, should I see a large difference in beer quality? If your answer is yes, would you recommend the BM machine? it looks like a high quality machine.


As far as your clarification issues with the WW, I have had similar issues with many recipes. I love IPA's and I was adding many hop additions. I would have to empty the sediment bottle at least twice during the clarification process. I recently got a 300 micron steel hop spider and it has helped with sediment issues. I also spoke with Ian about a larger sediment bottle. He said they are working on some new options. One was a sediment bottle with a one way valve to have the ability to empty, fill back with beer, all without have to take it off the machine.


Thanks for any info you may provide!

Griffin
Griffin
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:04 pm

Re: Using Braumeister with Williams Warn Personal Brewery

Unread postby Dicko » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:33 pm

Hi Griffin,

As with anything brewing, it is what you want to achieve, enjoy doing and importantly, have the time to do.
The BM is a marvelous machine to produce an all grain beer but it does not suit all brewers.
If you are happy making extract beers then that is what you may want to stick with.
The WW is apparently a great way to ferment beers under full control of the process at all levels.
I have not seen one or used one but from limited reports it appears to be able to do what it claims to do.

How much better would an all grain brew be??
That would be hard to define.
Why dont you get a Fresh Wort Kit of known quality and run that through your WW and see the result in comparison to your extract recipes. In this way it may provide the answer.

If you do this, let us all know what you think.

:cheers:
The worst thing that can happen if I die is that my wife will sell all my brewing equipment for what I told her I paid for it
User avatar
Dicko
 
Posts: 1179
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:25 pm
Location: Port Lincoln South Oz
Model: 20 litres

Next

Return to General / Tips and Tricks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests