Not getting much flavour or aroma.

How to get most out of brewing with your Braumeister? Help others and share your tips/best practices.

Not getting much flavour or aroma.

Unread postby Beerkench » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:22 pm

Hello fellow BM'ers.

I'm trying to chase down a problem that I'm having with the beers I brew that are somewhat lacking in the aroma/flavour department, regardless of my hop choice and quantity.
The bitterness is there and the beer I make isn't bad or off tasting. It's good clean beer but just rather disappointing considering that I can do a pale ale with 40 Ibus, lots of late hopping and can throw in 30-60 gms in at 0 mins without getting much smell or taste. I know that dry hopping is a way to get more flavour in but I really want to get to the core of this before resorting to dry hopping every beer.
My water is soft and of good quality and I've tried both adjusting it with gypsum and leaving it as it is but to no avail.

The beer is usually really tasty actually when it has fermented out and is still flat, however after a period of bottle conditioning of 2-3 weeks and opening one I am usually met with slight disappointment. Clean bitterness but no aroma.
I think that there could be problems with my bottling process - I usually bottle 10 and then cap them. Maybe doing 10 is leaving too much time for oxygen to get in?
Or I am over carbonating?I must admit that I know am over carbonating as I have to pour them really slow to stop them frothing over but would this have an effect on the flavour?

Appreciate any tips.
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Re: Not getting much flavour or aroma.

Unread postby Oz11 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:08 pm

Are there any other brewers/drinkers near you who can give you a second opinion whose views you trust?
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Not getting much flavour or aroma.

Unread postby BrauTim » Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:55 pm

Try adding the last addition hops once the wort has cooled to 80C and then let them steep for at least 30 mins, it's worked for me so far. A temperature over 80C drives the volatile aroma compounds off.
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Re: Not getting much flavour or aroma.

Unread postby Dicko » Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:07 pm

BrauTim wrote:Try adding the last addition hops once the wort has cooled to 80C and then let them steep for at least 30 mins, it's worked for me so far. A temperature over 80C drives the volatile aroma compounds off.


I have to totally agree with this,
This process makes a real difference to the aroma. :D

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Re: Not getting much flavour or aroma.

Unread postby fy0d0r » Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:52 pm

may the hop age be an issue ?
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Re: Not getting much flavour or aroma.

Unread postby niels » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:13 pm

What about yeast choice? Some strains strip the hop aroma...

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Re: Not getting much flavour or aroma.

Unread postby Beerkench » Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:24 pm

I use fresh hops, do hop stands at 80c and use varying yeasts from US-05 to British types.

Really I've convinced myslef that I'm overcarbing as my beers are much more fizzy that others which according to my reasearch can cause too much carbonic acid and over carbing generally makes it harder for the taste buds to do their job.
125gm table sugar for a 20-22L batch is what I prime with although I think I might be bottling to early so my beer's going down a few points in the bottle.
Fermenting time for me is 2 weeks before cold crashing. Is this not enough time maybe? I must admit I only check the FG once after 2 weeks to avoid wasting beer.

Another thing I don't do is siphon to a secondary. I'm a primary only person. Could this be a flavour killer?

Cheers.
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Re: Not getting much flavour or aroma.

Unread postby BrauTim » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:47 pm

90g of sugar per 23l for an English style is plenty.
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Re: Not getting much flavour or aroma.

Unread postby kstiglich » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:12 am

Beerkench wrote:Hello fellow BM'ers.

I'm trying to chase down a problem that I'm having with the beers I brew that are somewhat lacking in the aroma/flavour department, regardless of my hop choice and quantity.
The bitterness is there and the beer I make isn't bad or off tasting. It's good clean beer but just rather disappointing considering that I can do a pale ale with 40 Ibus, lots of late hopping and can throw in 30-60 gms in at 0 mins without getting much smell or taste. I know that dry hopping is a way to get more flavour in but I really want to get to the core of this before resorting to dry hopping every beer.
My water is soft and of good quality and I've tried both adjusting it with gypsum and leaving it as it is but to no avail.

The beer is usually really tasty actually when it has fermented out and is still flat, however after a period of bottle conditioning of 2-3 weeks and opening one I am usually met with slight disappointment. Clean bitterness but no aroma.
I think that there could be problems with my bottling process - I usually bottle 10 and then cap them. Maybe doing 10 is leaving too much time for oxygen to get in?
Or I am over carbonating?I must admit that I know am over carbonating as I have to pour them really slow to stop them frothing over but would this have an effect on the flavour?

Appreciate any tips.


Can you tell us what hops are you using and share your recipe to let us identify the problem that you are having?

I did many brews trying different recipes and I would say that it depends a lot on the hop used, the quantity and the timing...

I did some brews with dry hopping of cascade with some minor aroma, but good flavor.
I did some brews with amarillo hop at flame out and whir pooling and it smell more...
And recently I did a brew using orange peel and ginger both of them 10 mins before end of boiling and it has a lot of aroma, and more than the previous brews....

By the way, always temperature of your beer at serving time will affect aroma and flavor. Any ALEs must be served at 10ºC or 50ºF... if you keep them in your freeze and serve them colder you will lose some aroma and flavor...
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Re: Not getting much flavour or aroma.

Unread postby Dr Jacoby » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:12 am

Oxidation can really strip out hop flavour and aroma. What's your post fermentation process? Do you do anything to minimise oxygen pick up?
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Re: Not getting much flavour or aroma.

Unread postby bruulog » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:27 pm

Beerkench wrote:I use fresh hops, do hop stands at 80c and use varying yeasts from US-05 to British types.

Really I've convinced myslef that I'm overcarbing as my beers are much more fizzy that others which according to my reasearch can cause too much carbonic acid and over carbing generally makes it harder for the taste buds to do their job.
125gm table sugar for a 20-22L batch is what I prime with although I think I might be bottling to early so my beer's going down a few points in the bottle.
Fermenting time for me is 2 weeks before cold crashing. Is this not enough time maybe? I must admit I only check the FG once after 2 weeks to avoid wasting beer.

Another thing I don't do is siphon to a secondary. I'm a primary only person. Could this be a flavour killer?

Cheers.


Time is irrelevant, it's all about SG. If it's stopped dropping, you are ready to go.
If you move to secondary for dry hopping, you do that couple of blips before reaching FG.
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Re: Not getting much flavour or aroma.

Unread postby BrauTim » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:21 pm

Do you treat your water? The Sulphate to chloride ratio affects hop and malt flavours with higher sulphates providing more hop bitterness and perceived aroma.
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Re: Not getting much flavour or aroma.

Unread postby Nesto » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:52 pm

BrauTim wrote:Do you treat your water? The Sulphate to chloride ratio affects hop and malt flavours with higher sulphates providing more hop bitterness and perceived aroma.

⇈This...
http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-3.html

What kind of water are you starting with? Can you post the ion profile? Maybe that could give some ideas.
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Re: Not getting much flavour or aroma.

Unread postby bruulog » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:40 pm

OP writes that he uses soft water.

Calcium (Ca)

Calcium is the primary ion determining the “permanent hardness” of the water. Calcium plays multiple roles in the brewing process including lowering the Ph during mashing, aiding in precipitation of proteins during the boil, enhancing beer stability and also acting as an important yeast nutrient. Calcium levels in the 100 mg/l range are highly desirable, and additives should be considered if your water profile has calcium levels below 50 mg/l. The range 50mg/l to 150 mg/l is preferred for brewing.


Source: http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/08/24/br ... d-or-soft/
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