tie rod markings and mash in water

How to get most out of brewing with your Braumeister? Help others and share your tips/best practices.

Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby niels » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:11 pm

Paul is right about the wattage. To be more specific: The BM20 has a 2000W element where the BM50 has a 1200W and a 2000W element.

- Niels
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby paulg » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:07 am

royco
my calculation was for a 50 litreBM
for a 20 litre
2000 watt element = 6824 btu/hour
so 6825/8050 = 0.84 gallons per hour (3.8187 litres) pretty close to the 3.5 litres you measured

edit oops I just seen you have a 50 litre BM too
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby royco » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:15 am

Thanks paulg, I'm pleased to have done the trial showing that it is a fixed rate regardless of volume, and that it agrees with your calc.

Royco

PS: Would still like to pop in one day and have a homebrew in beautiful Corfu. :beer:
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby paulg » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:09 pm

royco
you would be welcome,likewise I would love to go to south african to see the mighty springboks play
but I know I wont
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby Victor Coelho » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:41 pm

royco wrote:Don't know where to put this as it comes up in 2 sections, but today I boiled 30L water in the BM50 with sleeping bag insulation and the boil-off was 3,5L in 1 hour.
I was lazy to spend spend twice the time to boil a full BM50 but according to this it makes no difference:

Boiloff rate is dependent on heat input and little else. The volume of water or wort being boiled has nothing to do with the evaporation rate. BTUs in translates into water boiled off, minus heat losses through the kettle walls. There probably is a minor contribution from surface area of the kettle and the humidity, wind speed etc, but the overwhelming effect is heat input to the wort when it's at the boiling point. High heat input equals vigorous boil and fast evaporation. Low heat input equals limp boil and slow evaporation. It takes 970 BTU to evaporate one pound of water, or 8050 BTU per gallon. Doesn't matter if your boiling one gallon or a million, as long as you input 8050 BTU over whatever time period, you will evaporate one gallon of water.

Is the BM20 heater the same wattage as the BM50, as the boil-off seems the same? Apparently it is Not a percentage, but a fixed rate per model, all other things being equal.


Hi royco!
Did you measure this 3.5 litres boil off with the water hot or room temp?
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby royco » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:13 pm

Hi Victor,
I was bored the next day so I actually did a 90min boil using 50L. The rate was almost identical at 5L, i.e. 3.33L per hour. I think the 30L boil was closer to 3.33 than 3.5L, but it was interesting that it agreed with the principle that Heat In = Evaporation out, regardless of volume.
The first test was done before and after cooling, with no appreciable difference. The 50L boil was only checked hot as I assumed that the vessel and the liquid were expanding and contracting, albeit at different rates, so the difference for my junior school level of expertise was not meaningful. I am happy to use 5L boil off for 90min this weekend and will report any weird happenings!
paulg wrote:leosardinha
what do you find your boil off is per hour? do you only boil 60 minutes

Paulg
edit just seen your other post 10% per hour


Paulg
It is definitely not a percentage unless all other things are constant. Better to use a fixed volume per BM model, i.e. 3.33L/hr for a BM50 and around 2.4L/hr for a BM20.
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby Victor Coelho » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:53 pm

royco,
If the measuring was done with hot water then you have to ad +/- 4% shrinkage loss or am I wrong?

(BM50)
Boil vol = 30l
Post boil vol = 26.5l (measured 3.5l)
Shrinkage loss = 1.06l
Final vol = 25.44l
Total loss = 4,56l

Does that make any sense?
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby royco » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:36 pm

Hi Victor, it was stupid of me to have gone that far and then not measure again cold. I am sure your figure of 4% is right from what I have read.
Next time I won't be so lazy :oops:
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby Victor Coelho » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:59 pm

No, no, no Royco, I think I'm the one who is all confused! Hehe
If you put 30 litres of COLD water my calculation does not apply.
Can you confirm that?
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby royco » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:33 am

Haha, should we start all over? :) I'm actually going to do this again and record properly. However, the science goes like this:

If you start with 30L at (say) 20°C and heat up to just below boiling then cool back to 20°C you will end up with exactly 30L, (give or take a few ml evaporating to atmosphere).
Do the same but boil for 1hr, cool to 20°C and you will get the calculated evaporation of, say, 3.33L.

BUT, if the boil volume is measured at boiling point, the loss will be 3.33L plus 4% of the 30L (for contraction), i.e. an extra 1,2L.

Cheer, Royco.

PS NIELS: We seem to have parallel threads here as this discussion also comes under Water, Evaporation rates etc
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby Victor Coelho » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:21 am

Exactly!
I'll do the same, I'll do a maltless brew session to weight the remaining volume.
Why don't I just do the BTU math? Well...this formula only applies to sea level where water boils at 100°C and I'm at almost 1000 meters above sea level and water boils at 95.5°C and this might give me a "significant" vol.
I've seen this discussion somewhere on another forum and the guys got really upset and started arguing between themselves, but I just don't remember wich forum was it, otherwise I would ask about the boilling temp.
Let's see what we come up with!
Take care...
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby IPA » Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:32 pm

Seems to me there is too much calculating being done here. Th BM is meant to be simple to use and it is. For the 50 litre this is how it goes 52.5 litres of water for the mash 12 litres for the sparge done very slowly with the top filter still in place.
Boil then top up to what ever brewlength you are after. I usually have a 57 litre brewlength to fit three cornies so I top up 60 litres cool transfer to FV job done! By the way my usual mash efficiency is 87-90% Why make things complicated?
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby Victor Coelho » Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:04 pm

Oh measure the boil off is complicated to you?
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby Victor Coelho » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:14 pm

Geez Royco! I got almost 5 litres boil off for my BM20!!!
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby IPA » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:11 am

Victor Coelho wrote:Oh measure the boil off is complicated to you?


It's not complicated just unnecessary no matter how much is lost in the boil top it up afterwards!. If maths is your bag fair enough by mine is brewing beer :beerbang: I have been brewing with a Braumeister for five years and unlike some people I read the Speidel manual BEFORE I started using it.
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