tie rod markings and mash in water

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tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby paulg » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:37 pm

having today received my 50 litre BM and short malt pipe, I have 2 questions
1) are the tie rod markings the same as the 20 litre BM for the short malt pipe ie 20,25 and 30 litres?

2)when I input a recipe to beersmith it tells me I need 40.24 litres total for a 25 litre into the fermenter using short malt pipe.
I have initial settings of
3 litres loss to trub
5 litre boil off per hour, 90 min boil
I have read to sparge with 1 litre per kilo grain .My recipe calls for 6.4 kilos malt ,so 40.24 litres - 6.4 leaves about 34 litres as mash in ,this is above the top mark on the tie bar if i am correct about the markings so I am thinking should I sparge more and mash in with less?
what do people do? as all my recipes are about the same mash in amounts ( 1.035 -1.055 og beers )

thanks in advance
Paul
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby Dicko » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:44 pm

What I do with mine (20 l) is have the software calculate the amount of water needed then fill to the recommended mark ( mine is the top mark ) and then sparge the balance of the amount.
I actually put all the water required int the BM and then drain off down to the required mark on the centre rod and the amount that I have drained off is the sparge amount.
The reason I do it this way is so I may treat the total water with salts.

:beer:
The worst thing that can happen if I die is that my wife will sell all my brewing equipment for what I told her I paid for it
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby paulg » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:00 am

yes that makes sense ,I was just concerned that for a 25 litre brew length if I need approx 41 litres and mash in with 28 as per manual I would need to sparge way more than 1 litre per kilo (41l-28l= 13 litres )

I guess with traditional brewing you are sparging maybe 20 litres for same brew length so over sparging is not an issue for us,no worries about sparge gravity/tannins
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby leosardinha » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:12 pm

I have a image at my house pc which demonstrates the water level at each mark for the 50L unit.

I will post when I get home.

I use only the short malt pipe and I normally mash in with 30 liters, sparge with 1L per kg of grain to have the same boil volume, 30 liters.

After boil and trub losses I get around 24 liters in the fermenter.
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby niels » Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:06 pm

You can find the image in this post too: viewtopic.php?p=918#p918

- Niels
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby paulg » Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:36 pm

leosardinha
what do you find your boil off is per hour? do you only boil 60 minutes

edit just seen your other post 10% per hour
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby leosardinha » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:15 pm

niels wrote:You can find the image in this post too: viewtopic.php?p=918#p918

- Niels


That is exactly the image I was looking for, thanks Niels!
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby leosardinha » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:41 pm

paulg wrote:leosardinha
what do you find your boil off is per hour? do you only boil 60 minutes

edit just seen your other post 10% per hour


But please share you experience, I never trully measured the boil off.

I just measured pre boil and volume into fermenter... and I lose about 6 liters on both
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby paulg » Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:38 am

so for a brew of 25 litres into fermenter beersmith says I need about 40 litres (grain bill 4 kilos),boil off set a 5 litres/hour 90 minute boil ,3 litres loss to trub.
using the simulator leosardinha posted it says about 6 litres less
can someone who uses a 50 litre BM with short malt pipe confirm which is nearer ,and if it is the simulator perhaps share there beersmith settings so I can see where I am wrong
thanks
Paul
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby leosardinha » Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:28 pm

Paulg,

for 25 litres into fermenter, considering 3 liters of trub loss and 10% of boil off on 90 minutes.

I would say you need to boil about 33 liters.

if your grain bill is 4 KG, I would start with 30 liters and do a 7 liter sparge.
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby paulg » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:32 pm

leosardinha
beersmith gives a pre boil volume 38.58 litres .On checking my beersmith equipment profile and it is set at 7 litres per hour that is 18.1% per hour you are stating 10% give or take.
this is where the discrepancy is if I change the hourly boil off to 3.5 litres (this is 10.5% /hour) my figures fall in line with a pre boil figure of 33.33 litres 35.91 litres total water required.
i think the best bet is to do a brew using the revised figures.
just need my water supply to my village restored ,it was cut off due to pump problems wednesday morning right when I had planned to brew.
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby Victor Coelho » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:47 pm

Fill the BM with plain water, boil, cool it and measure the boil off.
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby royco » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:06 pm

Don't know where to put this as it comes up in 2 sections, but today I boiled 30L water in the BM50 with sleeping bag insulation and the boil-off was 3,5L in 1 hour.
I was lazy to spend spend twice the time to boil a full BM50 but according to this it makes no difference:

Boiloff rate is dependent on heat input and little else. The volume of water or wort being boiled has nothing to do with the evaporation rate. BTUs in translates into water boiled off, minus heat losses through the kettle walls. There probably is a minor contribution from surface area of the kettle and the humidity, wind speed etc, but the overwhelming effect is heat input to the wort when it's at the boiling point. High heat input equals vigorous boil and fast evaporation. Low heat input equals limp boil and slow evaporation. It takes 970 BTU to evaporate one pound of water, or 8050 BTU per gallon. Doesn't matter if your boiling one gallon or a million, as long as you input 8050 BTU over whatever time period, you will evaporate one gallon of water.

Is the BM20 heater the same wattage as the BM50, as the boil-off seems the same? Apparently it is Not a percentage, but a fixed rate per model, all other things being equal.
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby paulg » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:10 pm

no royco the bm 20 l is listed as a 2000 watt heating element and the 50l is 3200 watts
3200 watts is 10918.8544 btu/hour
so 10919/8050=1.35 so if there was no losses I am guessing boil off would be 1.35 gallons per hour (6.13 litres) assuming the above is uk gallons
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Re: tie rod markings and mash in water

Unread postby royco » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:33 pm

Thanks paulg, I didn't "do the math" and I'm now well confused as the calculation yields almost twice the rate in my experiment today. BTW I didn't work the formula out; it was from another forum.
The gist is that for a given model (and heat source) the evaporation per hour will be the same no matter how much or how little water is boiled. Maybe I made a mistake.
Sorry if this has become a bit laboured!
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