50 litre BM question

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50 litre BM question

Unread postby paulg » Mon May 12, 2014 7:39 pm

so I have decided to buy a 50 litre BM not the 20 litre as first thought.
my question is what is the minimum amount of liquor and grain required with the standard malt pipe.
If I was to brew a mild og 1.035 OG grain bill 3.75 kilos for 25 litres brew length how much will I need to scale it up to, if I was to brew with no sparging.
I realise that the efficiency may suffer.
I plan to buy a 25 litre malt pipe when funds allow next month.
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Re: 50 litre BM question

Unread postby leosardinha » Mon May 12, 2014 9:48 pm

I don´t think that would work, you need a minimum ammount of water for the system to be able to recirculate...

you can try to figure out how much it is by inserting the pipe and test what would be the minimum...
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Re: 50 litre BM question

Unread postby paulg » Tue May 13, 2014 8:16 am

leosardinha
I think maybe I didnt phrase my question well
that was exactly my point what is the minimum liquor required to fill the malt pipe and cover the elements and is there a minimum grain bill required in the malt pipe, ie to get clear wort and good extraction.bearing in mind that with BIAB I have been brewing with the same sort of water to grain ratios I assume the extraction would be ok but does the malt pipe require a certain thickness of grain to work as I assume it works as a filter to clear the wort.
I realise I could not brew a 25 litre brew length with the standard malt pipe but guess there must be a point where everything works but is less than a 50 litre brew length.
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Re: 50 litre BM question

Unread postby fy0d0r » Tue May 13, 2014 9:32 am

I've done numerous 27-30L brews with a long pipe on 50L BM with no issues.

You'll need to fill 40-45L of water (depends on amount of grain and sparging)

Even if the reason of 25L brew limitation is the fermeter size, you can use the remaining 1.5-2.5L of wort for krausening and about 2L more for next batch starter.

I'd not rush with a small pipe, as I've bought one, tried it once and never used again.
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Re: 50 litre BM question

Unread postby paulg » Tue May 13, 2014 4:11 pm

thanks thats what I needed to know,I am thinking full volume no sparge
fermenter in not an issue I have a 50 litre one.I need to brew 20.5 litres into my cask (4.5 gallons pin) so any extra could be bottled.
I dont mind bottling a few bottles but gave up on 25 litres worth a long time ago
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Re: 50 litre BM question

Unread postby Soviet » Mon May 19, 2014 3:17 pm

I know you mentioned low-gravity, but I routinely brew high gravity 5 gallon batches on the 50L. When I brew this way, I try to use as little water as possible to cover the elements and complete the pump circuit as you said. For me this ends up being about 11.25 gallons, but the mash pipe usually has about 22-23 lbs of grain in it (sorry, please convert to metric). You will probably need more water than that if you have less grain in the pipe. Overall, it should be pretty easy to do that low gravity in the BM, I myself have done lots of ~1.040 beers with the standard malt pipe. There's a shorter malt pipe available for smaller batches, but for my high-gravity small batches I just do an extended boil.
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Re: 50 litre BM question

Unread postby joostdb » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:52 pm

last brew i used 10.3Kg grains, I tried to go for 40L of water, but had to add an extra 1L to cover up the last bit of the outer heating element which was sticking out of the wort.

with a typical grain bill i think its around 40-41L. if you are using more grains (i guess it will hold up to around 13Kg), you could probably go down as low as 38ish.

on low gravity beers this means more water of course, although i am not sure of the exact displacement of the grains since they absorb a considerable amount of water. maybe the amount of grain does not change the 41L number much. it would be an easy test to see without any grains how much water is needed to fill the entire malt pipe yet have the outer heating elements complete immersed. smaller grains bills would fall somewhere in between these values.
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Re: 50 litre BM question

Unread postby niels » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:27 pm

Speidel recommends a minimum of 43 litres of mash water. I can imagine they add some margin, so your 41 litres is not far off.

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Re: 50 litre BM question

Unread postby royco » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:33 am

This is interesting. Shout me down if I am missing something, but is the minimum water the same for the 25L pipe? I would also like to do absolute minimum test batches, but it seems 12~15L may be extreme.
Maybe an extended boil as suggested here?
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Re: 50 litre BM question

Unread postby paulg » Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:18 am

I would guess that with the small malt pipe you need less water inside the malt pipe to fill it and outside would need the same as the big one you would require less
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