No sparging ...

[cpa4ny]

I am of the opinion that a traditional sparge is not what we are really doing with the BM, we are just washing and draining the grains of the sugars that are 'stuck' amongst the grain particles and husk, a traditional sparge could take 1 hour or more.

I used the word "sparge" loosely - technically speaking, you are absolutely correct

So why not pour that top up water through the grain bed in my malt pipe? If I can get any extra sugars with a tiny extra effort, I'll give it a shot.

+1 - fully agree

[Lylo]

I have added water to top up for the volume I want to hit. So why not pour that top up water through the grain bed in my malt pipe? If I can get any extra sugars with a tiny extra effort, I'll give it a shot.

As an old BIABer and Pat Hollingdale disciple, we always adhered to the principal that the top up water that you use is more efficiently used if it is employed for the duration of the mash rather than just as a rinse.

[Nesto]

I have added water to top up for the volume I want to hit. So why not pour that top up water through the grain bed in my malt pipe? If I can get any extra sugars with a tiny extra effort, I'll give it a shot.

As an old BIABer and Pat Hollingdale disciple, we always adhered to the principal that the top up water that you use is more efficiently used if it is employed for the duration of the mash rather than just as a rinse.

I would certainly do that if my malt pipe weren't completely submerged for the mash. I know the system will work ok like that. I just don't want to handle the wing nut, hold down bow and support stirrup under 78C wort

[Cervantes]

As an old BIABer and Pat Hollingdale disciple, we always adhered to the principal that the top up water that you use is more efficiently used if it is employed for the duration of the mash rather than just as a rinse.

Which is great if you have the room in the pot.

But if not then rinsing/sparging has to be a good second best.

Sorry, just realised that this is basically a repeat of Nesto's post.

[Lylo]

I would certainly do that if my malt pipe weren't completely submerged for the mash. I know the system will work ok like that. I just don't want to handle the wing nut, hold down bow and support stirrup under 78C wort

Not a problem with silicone gloves.

[whitegoose]

I actually find for a lot of my brews in my 20L BM I *need* to sparge just to get the right final volume (without being over-full during the mash).

Typical brew for me is:
- 25L mash water (I understand this is about the highest starting volume the 20L can take?)
- 5-ish kg of grain - gives me about 21-ish L of wort (I seem to have a higher grain absorbtion ratio than everyone else on this forum!)
- sparge with 7L - gets me up to 28L for the boil
- 90 minute boil - brings me down to 24-ish litres at the end of the boil

Without sparging I'd either be brewing really small batches or, I think, over-filling the mash...

[Lylo]

That is what we are talking about. Over filling. Using the full volume of water in the vessel.
These are the steps that I use.
Fill the BM with the volume of water I calculate I will need.
Heat to dough in temp.
drain down to about 25l.
Dough in.
Refill the BM with water with the water that you drained off. This will be close to the top of the vessel
Mash as usual.
Carefully remove the hold down nut and bar.( I use silicone glove for this)
Remove malt pipe and set aside to drain.
Start ramping to boil.
Pour draining into boil and proceed as usual.

[jervell]

I should post my checklist sometime - you guys will get a kick out of just how persnickety someone can be.

If you would, Nesto, then I for one would find that very interesting. I'm a bit of a nitpicker and also pretty new to brewing in general (have about 10 batches under my belt). Would love to peek at your list to gain some insight & inspiration.

[Cervantes]

Lylo,

Just to recap, what exactly are the advantages of using this no sparge method?

Do you find an improvement in Mash efficiency?

Is it purely for the convenience of not having to sparge?

I did re-read the thread, but didn't quite get to the reason why.

[Nesto]

I should post my checklist sometime - you guys will get a kick out of just how persnickety someone can be.

If you would, Nesto, then I for one would find that very interesting. I'm a bit of a nitpicker and also pretty new to brewing in general (have about 10 batches under my belt). Would love to peek at your list to gain some insight & inspiration.

Just did. Hope y'all enjoy a peek into my world

[whitegoose]

That is what we are talking about. Over filling. Using the full volume of water in the vessel.
These are the steps that I use.
Fill the BM with the volume of water I calculate I will need.
Heat to dough in temp.
drain down to about 25l.
Dough in.
Refill the BM with water with the water that you drained off. This will be close to the top of the vessel
Mash as usual.
Carefully remove the hold down nut and bar.( I use silicone glove for this)
Remove malt pipe and set aside to drain.
Start ramping to boil.
Pour draining into boil and proceed as usual.

Haha yeah I know what you're talking about - I'm from a BIAB background which is full volume brewing - but the trick with BIAB is that there is no pump to circulate the mash and no malt pipe...

So when you brew exactly as you've stated above, is the wort level above the top of the malt pipe? Is that why you need the gloves to get the nut undone? I always assumed that would be a problem, but maybe not so much? Does the pump cope?

I might give it a go one time to see if I do get better efficiency - i guess the fact that the grain:water ratio is lower could mean an increase in efficiency, but rinsing the grains would also get extra sugars out... might come down to whether I want to burn my fingers.

[Lylo]

You will gain some efficiency without the rinse! This is something we learn in BIAB, when the " rinse" water is used in the mash, it is the same or better than using it after because it has been in contact with the grain for longer. This is a concept that people have a hard time with I know, but it is true.
Use the full volume, then just drain!!
P.S.
Yes the mash volume is well over the height of the malt tube. About 1" from top of the BM.

[Cervantes]

I'm going to give this a try.

Would also mean that I don't have to run a second boiler for heating the sparge/rinse water.

It ill be interesting to compare the mash efficiency with what I am currently getting.

[Lylo]

I've only done it twice but really like the method.

[Dicko]

I've only done it twice but really like the method.

So Lylo, was there any difference in efficiencies in the two brews you did full volume to what you were achieving with a small sparge?