No sparging ...

How to get most out of brewing with your Braumeister? Help others and share your tips/best practices.

Re: No sparging ...

Unread postby Lac » Mon May 19, 2014 7:23 pm

Cervantes wrote:Lac/Lylo,

Do you tap down and stir at any point during mashing?


No, not at all.
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Re: No sparging ...

Unread postby cpa4ny » Mon May 26, 2014 2:00 am

Soviet wrote:
whitegoose wrote:I don't get it - why woldn't you sparge when it;s so easy?


I'll give you a whole bunch of reasons why you wouldn't:
1. You have $3000 (more if you modified) electric all-in-one vessel machine and you're still heating water in a separate vessel?
2. You still have to adjust/acidify your sparge water, additional steps, additional measurements required, simplify your process
3. Improper adjustment of sparge water can lead to excess tannin extraction
4. You can avoid 1,2, and 3 (above) if you simply use a bit more grain and don't sparge
5. You can avoid 1,2, and 3 if you add a little bit of DME too

So, why would you sparge?


Why would you leave the extra sugars in the malt pipe and not rinse them out?

Most people brewing with the BM are fairly familiar with basic brewing techniques - such as the need to heat the sparge water to 77C + acidify it to the proper pH range.
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Re: No sparging ...

Unread postby Cervantes » Mon May 26, 2014 3:16 am

cpa4ny wrote:Most people brewing with the BM are fairly familiar with basic brewing techniques - such as the need to heat the sparge water to 77C + acidify it to the proper pH range.


Just for my education.............

If you do a mash out at 78 and denature any remaining enzymes is there any need to adjust the PH of your sparge/rinse water?

I was under the assumption that this is just rinsing out any goodness that is trapped in the malt, rather than an actual sparge.
Cheers :cheers:
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Re: No sparging ...

Unread postby Lac » Mon May 26, 2014 4:02 am

cpa4ny wrote:Why would you leave the extra sugars in the malt pipe and not rinse them out?

One of the reasons that I have not sparge was that I could not measure any difference and then there was no reason to do so.
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Re: No sparging ...

Unread postby cpa4ny » Mon May 26, 2014 5:08 am

Cervantes wrote:
cpa4ny wrote:Most people brewing with the BM are fairly familiar with basic brewing techniques - such as the need to heat the sparge water to 77C + acidify it to the proper pH range.


Just for my education.............

If you do a mash out at 78 and denature any remaining enzymes is there any need to adjust the PH of your sparge/rinse water?

I was under the assumption that this is just rinsing out any goodness that is trapped in the malt, rather than an actual sparge.


Need to acidify the sparge water to avoid extracting tannins from grain husks. Failing to do so gives astringent taste to the beer.
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Re: No sparging ...

Unread postby cpa4ny » Mon May 26, 2014 5:14 am

Lac wrote:
cpa4ny wrote:Why would you leave the extra sugars in the malt pipe and not rinse them out?

One of the reasons that I have not sparge was that I could not measure any difference and then there was no reason to do so.


When I initially started brewing on the BM, I didn't sparge either.

However - when you empty out the malt pipe, try tasting some of that spent grain.

Without sparging, it will still taste sweet - i.e. it's an indication that there are some residuals sugars left in there.

I much rather prefer to have all the sugars in my wort - not in spent grains. But that's just me :cheers:
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Re: No sparging ...

Unread postby Cervantes » Mon May 26, 2014 5:59 am

cpa4ny wrote:Need to acidify the sparge water to avoid extracting tannins from grain husks. Failing to do so gives astringent taste to the beer.


Thanks for that. I haven't been treating my sparge water to date, but will start.

Is the ideal PH for sparging the same as for mashing?
Cheers :cheers:
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Re: No sparging ...

Unread postby niels » Mon May 26, 2014 6:25 am

Lac wrote:One of the reasons that I have not sparge was that I could not measure any difference and then there was no reason to do so.

But you could still sparge the malt pipe when it is sitting on top of a bucket so you get some extra wort for e.g. starters...

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Re: No sparging ...

Unread postby cpa4ny » Mon May 26, 2014 8:20 am

Cervantes wrote:
Thanks for that. I haven't been treating my sparge water to date, but will start.

Is the ideal PH for sparging the same as for mashing?


Ye, the idea is to keep the sparge water pH within the mashing range pH, i.e. somewhere within 5.2-5.6. We don't want to go over 5.8.
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Re: No sparging ...

Unread postby Cervantes » Mon May 26, 2014 8:46 am

cpa4ny wrote:
Cervantes wrote:
Thanks for that. I haven't been treating my sparge water to date, but will start.

Is the ideal PH for sparging the same as for mashing?


Ye, the idea is to keep the sparge water pH within the mashing range pH, i.e. somewhere within 5.2-5.6. We don't want to go over 5.8.


Cool. I'll treat all the water up front.

Thanks
Cheers :cheers:
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Re: No sparging ...

Unread postby BrauTim » Mon May 26, 2014 1:32 pm

Cervantes wrote:
cpa4ny wrote:
Cervantes wrote:
Thanks for that. I haven't been treating my sparge water to date, but will start.

Is the ideal PH for sparging the same as for mashing?


Ye, the idea is to keep the sparge water pH within the mashing range pH, i.e. somewhere within 5.2-5.6. We don't want to go over 5.8.


Cool. I'll treat all the water up front.

Thanks


That's what I do, I treat all water with Campden tablet and CRS then draw off 2-8 litres for sparge, the grains get salts.

I am of the opinion that a traditional sparge is not what we are really doing with the BM, we are just washing and draining the grains of the sugars that are 'stuck' amongst the grain particles and husk, a traditional sparge could take 1 hour or more.
To brew or not to brew, that would be a stupid question !
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Re: No sparging ...

Unread postby Lac » Mon May 26, 2014 6:55 pm

cpa4ny wrote:I much rather prefer to have all the sugars in my wort - not in spent grains. But that's just me :cheers:

Now I have only tried a few times without sparge and I will of course try on some more brews and should it turn out that there is more sugar back so I start sparge again, but right now I do not think there is enough to catch.
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Re: No sparging ...

Unread postby Lac » Mon May 26, 2014 7:03 pm

niels wrote:But you could still sparge the malt pipe when it is sitting on top of a bucket so you get some extra wort for e.g. starters...
Niels

Yes it would be an easy way to make a "starter" but I use almost only dry yeast and to them I do not use "starter" only dehydrated in boiled cooled water.
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Re: No sparging ...

Unread postby Nesto » Mon May 26, 2014 9:21 pm

I sparge mainly because it is so easy. For all the recipes I've done so far, I have added water to top up for the volume I want to hit. So why not pour that top up water through the grain bed in my malt pipe? If I can get any extra sugars with a tiny extra effort, I'll give it a shot.

It might take me an extra 10 minutes total to sparge...
1. When I am filtering water for the BM, I filter another 5 to 7 liters for sparging - no extra time, I continue with other steps (i.e., pressing buttons) while filtering into a pot for sparge water and putting in on the stove top in my kitchen with a burner set to get to 78C.
2. Calculating and measuring water adjustment chemicals - no extra time. EZ water calculator spreadsheet is setup to automatically calculate sparge water additions. I measure out the additions all at once while water is heating up for mash in, so it adds no time to the brew day.
3. Sparge time - so instead of just adding water to top up for volume, I add water to top up for volume through the grain bed. No extra time for pouring, since I would pour water into the wort anyway ;) ... ok, maybe I pour more slowly while sparging. There is an additional 5 - 10 minutes for the extra draining time.

Adding an extra handful of steps to my 15 page brewing checklist is pretty close to a "none percent" increase in steps. (Nod to Louis CK there.) ... I should post my checklist sometime - you guys will get a kick out of just how persnickety someone can be.

Now with all that said, if I design a recipe that doesn't need top up water, then I probably won't bother to sparge. I can't imagine I would notice much difference in efficiency if I stopped sparging with the recipes I've done already. I probably have more variation in the rest of my brewing process that would overcome any increase in efficiency from sparging.
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Re: No sparging ...

Unread postby Cervantes » Mon May 26, 2014 10:14 pm

Nesto wrote:I have added water to top up for the volume I want to hit. So why not pour that top up water through the grain bed in my malt pipe? If I can get any extra sugars with a tiny extra effort, I'll give it a shot.


My thoughts exactly.
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