Double mashing

How to get most out of brewing with your Braumeister? Help others and share your tips/best practices.

Re: Double mashing

Unread postby gert » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:06 pm

I was mailing with one of the Speidel-people and according to him:
- the BM 50L is a 85L vessel
- you can brew up to 70L with it, via double mashing
- after malt pipe is filled, up to 70L of water can be added.
"You can overfill also the malt pipe so that the water level is higher then the malt pipe. So you have no overflow, but the circulation will still be going on."

Anyone any experience with this? I'd love to try this...
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Re: Double mashing

Unread postby BrauTim » Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:53 am

I've overfilled with water once but panicked and dropped the level. It might be worth revisiting this potential technique though.
To brew or not to brew, that would be a stupid question !
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Re: Double mashing

Unread postby Twonky » Sun May 04, 2014 5:30 pm

Twonky wrote:Maybe I'll get an opportunity to test this next Sunday....

Regretfully broke my big toe yesterday during sport, so decided not to brew today in favor of keeping my foot elevated
Will let you know how it works out when I get round to brew this one...

Cheers
:cheers:
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Re: Double mashing

Unread postby cpa4ny » Tue May 06, 2014 12:22 am

Twonky wrote:Regretfully broke my big toe yesterday during sport, so decided not to brew today in favor of keeping my foot elevated
Will let you know how it works out when I get round to brew this one...

Cheers
:cheers:


Ouch... Get well soon!
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Re: Double mashing

Unread postby Twonky » Tue May 06, 2014 4:12 pm

It is going well, but long time standing is not yet an option...
Thanks for the concern;-)

Cheers
:cheers:
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Re: Double mashing

Unread postby Luis Coentrao » Tue May 20, 2014 10:27 pm

Hi,
I'm quite at this forum.
I'm a homebrewer from Porto, Portugal.
I was thinking about double mashing with the BM20L.
imagine your recipe tells you you need 6.5Kg of grain. How do you do the double mashing?
3.25kg grain / 22L Water, 90min >> remove malt pipe and cool the mash >> plus 3.25kg grain, 90 minutes ?
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Re: Double mashing

Unread postby niels » Wed May 21, 2014 9:07 am

Luis Coentrao wrote:Hi,
I'm quite at this forum.
I'm a homebrewer from Porto, Portugal.
I was thinking about double mashing with the BM20L.
imagine your recipe tells you you need 6.5Kg of grain. How do you do the double mashing?
3.25kg grain / 22L Water, 90min >> remove malt pipe and cool the mash >> plus 3.25kg grain, 90 minutes ?

Hi Luis,

The manual states that the 20L has a maximum malt capacity of 6kg. You can actually put a little more in it, so 6.5kg is not a problem.
If you "overfill" your malt pipe, make sure you stir the malt a few times during mashing to prevent channeling and increase efficiency. Simply pause the BM, untighten the nut, remove the top screens and gently stir the malt. Put everything back and resume the mashing program.

Niels
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Re: Double mashing

Unread postby Luis Coentrao » Wed May 21, 2014 11:39 am

Hi Niels,
Thanks for the post.
However, If I do need to got through a double-mash (imagine the recipe calls for 8g of grain), is there any "guidelines" to do it? In case they don't, any advices for the double-mash procedure?
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Re: Double mashing

Unread postby niels » Thu May 22, 2014 8:21 am

Luis Coentrao wrote:However, If I do need to got through a double-mash (imagine the recipe calls for 8g of grain), is there any "guidelines" to do it? In case they don't, any advices for the double-mash procedure?

Note that I've never done a double mash before, but...

If you want to do a double mash I see 2 options:
  1. Use a single step mash: Program your BM to do a single step mash that is twice as long as normal. You manually pause the step halfway through and pull the malt pipe. Fill it again with malt and top up the kettle with water to compensate the loss (about 1 liter/kg of grain from the first step). Put the malt pipe back and continue the mash. Mash out at 78°C if necessary and continue brewing as always.
  2. Use a multi step mash and cooler: Program your BM and do a full step mash cycle. Stop the BM after mashing, replace the grain in the malt pipe, top up the water (cold), cool further down to mash-in temperature, put the malt pipe back and restart the mashing program.

Personally I would go for the first option as it seems quicker and less cumbersome. Cooling down the wort to get to mash-in temperature again is probably very doable with a immersion chiller as you only have to get is down by about 20°C. But it takes extra time.

Niels
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Re: Double mashing

Unread postby NewEnglandBrewer » Thu May 22, 2014 1:30 pm

niels wrote:
Luis Coentrao wrote:However, If I do need to got through a double-mash (imagine the recipe calls for 8g of grain), is there any "guidelines" to do it? In case they don't, any advices for the double-mash procedure?

Note that I've never done a double mash before, but...

If you want to do a double mash I see 2 options:
  1. Use a single step mash: Program your BM to do a single step mash that is twice as long as normal. You manually pause the step halfway through and pull the malt pipe. Fill it again with malt and top up the kettle with water to compensate the loss (about 1 liter/kg of grain from the first step). Put the malt pipe back and continue the mash. Mash out at 78°C if necessary and continue brewing as always.
  2. Use a multi step mash and cooler: Program your BM and do a full step mash cycle. Stop the BM after mashing, replace the grain in the malt pipe, top up the water (cold), cool further down to mash-in temperature, put the malt pipe back and restart the mashing program.

Personally I would go for the first option as it seems quicker and less cumbersome. Cooling down the wort to get to mash-in temperature again is probably very doable with a immersion chiller as you only have to get is down by about 20°C. But it takes extra time.

Niels


I like the ideas .....
For option #2, do you think the first multi step mash requires a mashout at 78C before replacing the grain for the second mash?
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Re: Double mashing

Unread postby niels » Thu May 22, 2014 1:59 pm

NewEnglandBrewer wrote:I like the ideas .....
For option #2, do you think the first multi step mash requires a mashout at 78C before replacing the grain for the second mash?

The ideas are just a condensed report of what is in this thread, so I do not take credit :)

I wouldn't see a point of doing the 78°C mash-out on the first mash.

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Re: Double mashing

Unread postby Luis Coentrao » Thu May 22, 2014 2:03 pm

Hi Niels,
Thanks for the usefull information.
How do you usually perform a high gravity beer with your BM? Adding sugar / DME during the boil?
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Re: Double mashing

Unread postby niels » Thu May 22, 2014 5:14 pm

Luis Coentrao wrote:Hi Niels,
Thanks for the usefull information.
How do you usually perform a high gravity beer with your BM? Adding sugar / DME during the boil?

I don't really have the urge to brew very big beers, so the biggest beer I brewed was a 1.084 quadrupel. The recipe is on this forum.

It had some sugar and candi sirop in it, so that helped boosting the OG. The malt pipe could have hold some more grain and I reduced the amount of water so I ended up with a little over 20 litres (instead of 25 litres). I ended up with 58 bottles of 33cl (about19 litres).

Increasing the malt bill a little and bumping the sugar can bring you to 1.090 easily for Belgian style beers.

I want to do a stout in the coming months, so I will let you know how that goes.

Niels
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Re: Double mashing

Unread postby fy0d0r » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:53 am

Ive done a RIS this Sunday.

Double mashed 9+8 kg of malt (crushed at 1.1mm gap) and sparged with 6+6 liters.
45L of water initially
First wort was sparged with 6L cold (~20C) water to bring the wort temp back to 66C
Second wort was sparged with 6L hot (~70C) water

All wend great, efficiency was a bit lower than I was aiming (67% vs. 70%) so I've decided to increase boil time and use an old server cooler for faster evaporation.

I've ended up with 30L of 26.2P (1.111) wort, pitched with triple 1.3L starter of WLP007 ( "The Fun" AKA "Sweet Porridge" AKA "The Magic Porridge Pot" has started in about 12 hours)

Double_Mash_RIS.png
Double_Mash_RIS.png (41.26 KiB) Viewed 1059 times
Last edited by fy0d0r on Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Double mashing

Unread postby jervell » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:39 am

I want to try double mashing on one of my next brews. What is the reasoning behind mashing out twice? Was it to ensure good flow during sparging perhaps? Og could you just as well have skipped the first mash out?

EDIT: I was thinking that, in terms of efficiency, perhaps one would gain a point or two by not "locking" the first half of the wort.
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