Removing the tap on the 10L Braumeister

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Re: Removing the tap on the 10L Braumeister

Unread postby aowron » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:27 pm

rmklaw wrote:To me it is more likely to be the Brewbucket than the BM. I believe that coming out of the BM is sterilized (provided that your transferring hose is sanitized. However, there are plenty of places where you can get contamination in the Brew bucket. I use the Chronical and completely take it apart after every fermentation, clean it and store it. Also, on brew day, I fill the Chronical with StarSan and let it sit for a couple of hours, and the transfer the StarSan to a keg to sanitize.


Although, that infection was on the first use (and looks like the previous infection before I threw all the old fermentation equipment out); properly cleaned and sanitized with star san. Boiled the tap, that tube-thing connected to the tap, all o-rings and nuts.

When pouring into the fermentation vessel, I don't use a hose; I just let it flow directly from the tap to the vessel to aerate the wort (always used a boil hose when I've used bottling buckets or transferred to a secondary bucket though; this time, the only fermentation vessel involved was the brew bucket).

I let the cooling spiral sit in the boiling wort during the last 15 minutes of the boil to sterilize it; didn't do that previously, which might have been the cause to the infection originally, although, since it keeps on happening, I would rule the cooling spiral out.
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Re: Removing the tap on the 10L Braumeister

Unread postby mashy » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:17 pm

I think you are using the wrong products. You don't need to sanitize you need to wash it first. Use TFR ( traffic film remover) and a brush. This is a caustic cleaner and will amaze you.

This is an industrial cleaner to get you back to "zero " THEN if you want sanitize.
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Re: Removing the tap on the 10L Braumeister

Unread postby aowron » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:45 pm

mashy wrote:I think you are using the wrong products. You don't need to sanitize you need to wash it first. Use TFR ( traffic film remover) and a brush. This is a caustic cleaner and will amaze you.

This is an industrial cleaner to get you back to "zero " THEN if you want sanitize.


I see I missed adding "cleaning with PBW" there. First cleaning with PBW (it's partially caustic; contains ammonia), then sanitizing with star san.
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Re: Removing the tap on the 10L Braumeister

Unread postby mashy » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:59 am

I gave up on PBW - truck wash is much stronger and more versatile. I have big stainless to clean, so cost effective too.
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Re: Removing the tap on the 10L Braumeister

Unread postby Nashbrew » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:08 am

mashy wrote:I gave up on PBW - truck wash is much stronger and more versatile. I have big stainless to clean, so cost effective too.

Hi Mashy
What brand of TFR do you use?
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Re: Removing the tap on the 10L Braumeister

Unread postby mashy » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:35 pm

I get it from our local pumps/pressure washer/horticulture chap.

I can dod know it comes in 25l drums - but thats no help really....will go and check.
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Re: Removing the tap on the 10L Braumeister

Unread postby gandalf the brew » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:11 pm

I have used Clover 80 Truck Wash for a general cleaner but not for brewing equipment, but it is food safe after rinsing
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Re: Removing the tap on the 10L Braumeister

Unread postby aowron » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:30 pm

So, I've been hunting for information on the thermal death limits of Pediococcus Damnosus and acetobacter (could be acetobacter my equipment has been infected by, considering that I get a slight smell of vinegar). According the the Ss brewtech support, pediococcus and brett are resistant to heat, although, according to a study I found: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf ... .tb00053.x , it seems like 85-90 degrees (C) should kill it almost instantly (well, at least bring its cell count down by 90%, so an hour of boiling should, according to those numbers, take care of it).

Anyway, the best thing about the size of my fermenter is that it fits in my oven, so I'll probably try baking it (just have to make sure that the stainless steel won't warp).

Has anyone of you had an infection like this before? If that is the case, how did you get rid of it?
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Re: Removing the tap on the 10L Braumeister

Unread postby mashy » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:24 am

The commercial boys use steam. Do you have a steamer?
Making a steam generator would not be hard either (thinking wallpaper stripper with the end off or kettle on a piece of hose).
You could then steam everything in sight.

For the BM - cover the elements with water by about 1 inch and then put it on a manual boil 20 minutes. I did this when I was concerned a few months ago. Just got an attack of the heebeegeebees

If I'm honest, though I think stepping through the process might help you understand where the problem is rather than just randomly cleaning stuff. IF your process has issues it will be back.
Last edited by mashy on Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Removing the tap on the 10L Braumeister

Unread postby aowron » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:52 am

Just came to think of that my local hardware store sells steamers (the steam of those should sustain 130 degrees C), gonna get one of those and blast the biggest stuff (while booking the smaller stuff as usual).
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Re: Removing the tap on the 10L Braumeister

Unread postby mashy » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:22 am

Good choice. While you are there get some truck wash (TFR) - seriously its magic!
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Re: Removing the tap on the 10L Braumeister

Unread postby aowron » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:16 pm

Did some further research; seems like it would require steam being applied under pressure for about 20 minutes, so a steam cleaner won't be enough, thus, I'll go with the oven method instead (yes, I'm using tiny fermenter which fits in my oven). And getting an autoclave is really not an option :).

Anyway, I did also get some pointers on how to kill these pests from a previous colleague who studied biotechnology (he grew yeast in labs (not brewery related though) as his master's thesis, so I guess that should mean some experience in the area), and he mentioned that 110 degrees is really the most optimal; but for what you probably will encounter when home brewing, boiling temperatures are easily enough (i.e. it will kill most microorganisms).
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Re: Removing the tap on the 10L Braumeister

Unread postby aowron » Sun May 06, 2018 3:37 pm

Still seems like the film is present, now with the BM tap replaced (of course cleaned, boiled etc.). Dammit, I'm totally stumped at what could be the cause to the infection. I'll wait a week though to see if the film disappears after the priming is done, or if it still is present.

@Mashy: if you're still up for it, doing that walkthrough of my brewing process would be great; maybe I am missing something important; I really cannot see anything else that could be introducing the infection now (unless the oven/boiling sterilization of all things related to the fermentation vessel, replacement of hoses and bottle filler, oven sterilization of bottles wasn't enough).
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Re: Removing the tap on the 10L Braumeister

Unread postby f00b4r » Sun May 06, 2018 9:02 pm

Try also picking a cheap one can kit up, that will also help you narrow down if the infection is ingrained in your fermenting/bottling equipment.
NB it won't rule out the wort making end but that would be easy to test after too.
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Re: Removing the tap on the 10L Braumeister

Unread postby mashy » Tue May 08, 2018 6:49 am

Run a kit is a good idea. That should prove if it's BM or not.

I still think truck wash would help. "looks clean" stuff gives up muck when sprayed with it.

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