Earthing Problem

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Re: Earthing Problem

Unread postby mashy » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:14 am

Snakebite1969 wrote: Going to order a 5m - 2.5mm wire size dedicated cable from below link so I don't have to use an extension cable.
I also found directing a fan at the wall power socket greatly reduces the plug from overheating.


Heating up of cables is often caused by them being overly long, with lots of junctions, and inferior weight of core. (Resistance)

Think of it like a piece of syphon hose.. The thinner of the pipe the longer an amount of water takes to get through it. And in electrical situation this resistance causes heating and ultimately failure.

So for this type of problem you want. The shortest possible length of cable, quality/heaviest grade for the rating, straight through.
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Re: Earthing Problem

Unread postby airborn » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:56 am

Earthing electricks is made for safety not as a part of normal use.

Could we agree that there is a fault in the BM if you get an electrick shock when switched on even without ground.
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Re: Earthing Problem

Unread postby Aleman » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:54 am

airborn wrote:Earthing electricks is made for safety not as a part of normal use.

Could we agree that there is a fault in the BM if you get an electrick shock when switched on even without ground.

Not necessarily, it indicates that there is an earthing fault ;) the location of that fault may or may not be with the BM . . . as all the other links in the chain are insulated its when you contact the metal of the BM that you discover the earth fault.
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Re: Earthing Problem

Unread postby airborn » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:45 pm

My BM has this "chocking" problem when connected to the main without ground and I started to
disconnect the 3 wires at the back of the controller to know more.

Still "sparkling" when the temperature probe is disconnected
Still "sparkling" when the heatercoils are disconnected
NO "spark" when the pump is disconnected.....?..!

Pump fully functional..
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Re: Earthing Problem

Unread postby judgecc » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:02 pm

This sounds dangerous to me. Anybody contacted speidel about this?

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Re: Earthing Problem

Unread postby bierfest » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:04 pm

@airborn - Can i ask why you simply dont ground the BM? This is how it was built and what it was meant to do. It is also normal standard safety procedure for all electrics to be grounded as far as I am aware (im not an electrician though). I cant see how you are saying this is a problem when you are also stating that you are not grounding it.
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Re: Earthing Problem

Unread postby airborn » Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:59 pm

Because in Denmark we have special plugs for electricity with grounding - and my BM (bought i Denmark)was not delivered with such a plug.
It was a Schuco-plug which they use in Germany..we don't..

Besides it's not supposed to be like this - something must be wrong.

This is a new control unit as my former was faulty -in another way - it did not give any chocks though !!
This does.
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Re: Earthing Problem

Unread postby jaroporter » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:30 pm

if you connect the BM using a plug without earth (ground), or use a cheap crap adaptor with no/rubbish earth or connecting to any mains with no earth, the earth wire and chassis of the BM is no longer referenced to true earth (say, 0V) and can float to a potential above that. that could then give a tingle/shock when touching it while in good contact with true earth..

again, this would not be a fault with the BM.
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Re: Earthing Problem

Unread postby airborn » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:24 pm

Well I have sold my 2015 BM 20 ( my shock-model) and bought a BM20+.
This does not shock without grounding



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Re: Earthing Problem

Unread postby jaroporter » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:14 pm

you sold something you considered to be a shock risk?!
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Re: Earthing Problem

Unread postby mashy » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:09 am

jaroporter wrote:if you connect the BM using a plug without earth (ground), or use a cheap crap adaptor with no/rubbish earth or connecting to any mains with no earth, the earth wire and chassis of the BM is no longer referenced to true earth (say, 0V) and can float to a potential above that. that could then give a tingle/shock when touching it while in good contact with true earth..

again, this would not be a fault with the BM.


Ditto.

again, this would not be a fault with the BM
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Re: Earthing Problem

Unread postby judgecc » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:03 am

Image
This is from the Norwegian Braumeister Facebook site, and the user Espen.
Might be interested talking about grounding.
Concerning the new black controller.

I checked my contoller tonight regarding ground of pumps. Just one of the pumps where connected to ground and one of the heating elements. On my old controller (grey) both pumps are connected to ground and none of the elements. So I opened it and found out this (Pic 1.)
I rewired it and made it like this. Pic 2
Groundwire to the heatingelement are pointless because they have no ground.
If this is normal I would strongly suggest that you start grounding both pumps. It can be lethal if there should be a groundfault to to the pump without ground and one unscrew it without disconnecting the power. With Regards Espen

Svar 1:
Hello Espen,
thank you for making us aware of this issue.
From our basics the wiring in picture 1 is right.
The guy who made the wire diagram is o Holiday this week and will be back next week.
So I will ask him a bit more detailed about this issue and let you know.
Best regards
Ralf Leukart

Sendte purring på svar:
Hello Espen,
yes I got an answer form the guy who was designing the controller this morning.
And he confirmed that you are right in basic.
So thank you very much for this important hint.
You are right that the connection from the heating element to the ground wiring
is pointless.
From the view of safety I would say it will not come to accidents as the issue that
one has a ground fault at the pump and has dismantled the pump from the housing
at the same time is very, very seldom.
From law I can say that it is generally not allowed to connect electrical devices to
the power net during they are disassembled. Referring to the European EU standards.
Guess the Norwegian law will say the same?
Also we give the hint in our manual two times on topics 2.1 and 2.2 that the unit has
to be disconnected from the power net for any other operations as brewing
But anyway we will change the wiring as you suggested to protect our customer no
matter if it has to be done or not and give the customer the most safety we can.
So I want to thank you once more for your help to improve our Braumeister.
Best regards
Ralf Leukart

Svar fra teknikker:
Guten Morgen Herr Leukart,
Bei IT230V müssen elektrisch leitende Gehäuseteile mit Ground verbunden sein und auch die Pumpen sollten geerdet sein. Insofern hat Espen recht, dass Ground aller Pumpen angeschlossen sein sollten. Nur ganz so dramatisch, wie er es darstellt, ist es aus meiner Sicht nicht: die Pumpen sind mit Ihrem Gehäuse elektrisch mit dem Kessel verbunden und der Kessel ist zusätzlich auch noch mit Ground verbunden.

Es ist also zu empfehlen Ground beider Pumpen anzuschließen und dies sollte in der Fertigung umgesetzt werden.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
E. Kaspereit
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Re: Earthing Problem

Unread postby mashy » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:05 am

Which picture is this ? 1 or 2 pls?

Could we have both pics?
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Re: Earthing Problem

Unread postby judgecc » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:17 am

1 and 2Image
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Re: Earthing Problem

Unread postby judgecc » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:18 am

He's just grounded both pumps, that's the difference
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