Poor Efficiency with 50L and Short Malt Pipe

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Poor Efficiency with 50L and Short Malt Pipe

Unread postby rnarzisi » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:31 pm

Has anyone experienced a drastic degradation of efficiency when using the short malt pipe with the 50L Braumeister?

I've used the short malt pipe twice now. The first time my OG came out lower than expected, but I just chalked it up to being distracted during my brew session. I brewed yesterday and achieved about 60% mash efficiency. I normally achieve 72%-78% with the regular malt pipe.

My process includes a 70 minute mash with a 10 minute mashout and no sparge.

Yesterday I brewed the following recipe:
10LB 2-Row
1LB C-40
0.5LB Carapils

At a 75% efficiency, I should have hit 1.057, instead I only managed 1.047, roughly 60% efficiency.

I really like using the short malt pipe as I get more variety in what I brew and the brew day is a lot shorter. But the low efficiency really is a deal breaker for me.
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Re: Poor Efficiency with 50L and Short Malt Pipe

Unread postby leosardinha » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:54 pm

I may have the same issue.

But I am still trying to conclude on it and I still do not have a clear view.

My first brew and second brew, my planned OG was 1.048 at 75% efficiency, exact same malt bill and mash schedules.

On the first
I mashed with 25 liters(which I found really tough, really thick dough in), sparged with 10 liters at room temp.
The measured OG was 1.041 and 25 liters of final volume.

On the second
I mashed with 30 liters(which was a lot easier), sparged with 5 liters at 76C.
The measured OG was 1.047 and the same 25 liters of final volume.

I think 75% is good but I think it can be improved.

This weekend I will brew a Belgian Strong Golden Ale, with a planned OG of 1.073, it has 5.4 kg of malt and 1kg of sugar but still I expect a high efficiency to reach the OG.

I will try to abort the program a couple times to stir the mash, let´s see how it goes.

I leave the feedback here after it.
Last edited by leosardinha on Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Poor Efficiency with 50L and Short Malt Pipe

Unread postby BrauTim » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:32 pm

I'm usually at around 80% efficiency sometimes 85%, I have no problems hitting my targets with the short mash pipe, using Beersmith to predict OG I usually get a point or two over. 30 mins after mash-in I usually give it a stir. I treat my water and I measure my mash pH to make sure it's within range, I mash with 33 Litres and sparge with 2-4 litres and I crush with a Corona mill so that the crush 'looks about right'.
To brew or not to brew, that would be a stupid question !
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Re: Poor Efficiency with 50L and Short Malt Pipe

Unread postby leosardinha » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:04 pm

Just leaving the feedback.

The brew was done, the planned OG was 1.073 in fact.

Tested the mash in with 35 Liters, It was way too much, I think 30 liters is the limit for me.

Sparged with 4 liters.

Mash in @ 38C, 20' @ 51C, 45' @ 63C, 45' @70C and 10' @ 76C. Long mash to convert all that was possible.

My pre boil OG was a little bit low, I think 6kg decreased the efficiency a bit and due to the large water volume I was lot able to abort the program and stir the mash to gain some points.

So I decided to go with a 2 hour boil.

Sugar added with 15 minutes left in the boil.

To wrap up, my OG ended at 1.069 not so far but I was not very happy.

I think next time I will go for 30 liters at mash in and stir a couple times.
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Re: Poor Efficiency with 50L and Short Malt Pipe

Unread postby ChilliMayne » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:01 pm

The 20 L malt pipe for the 50L system is a'con' quite frankly.
I wish I never bought it as Ill never use it again :twisted:
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Re: Poor Efficiency with 50L and Short Malt Pipe

Unread postby niels » Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:44 pm

ChilliMayne wrote:The 20 L malt pipe for the 50L system is a'con' quite frankly.
I wish I never bought it as Ill never use it again :twisted:

Can you elaborate? I have used it for the past 5 brews without any problems.

Aren't your expectations met? Or did you experience other problems?

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Re: Poor Efficiency with 50L and Short Malt Pipe

Unread postby ChilliMayne » Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:23 pm

I'm unhappy with the way the extension bar is suppose to accommodate the malt pipe in place.
Not very well.
I thought it was too short also for the force of the pumps from my recollection.
Its been a while now and I have no intention of reminding myself other than it was a complete waste of time.
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Re: Poor Efficiency with 50L and Short Malt Pipe

Unread postby bierfest » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:22 pm

This sounds like a problem I had and I found the answer here on this forum. Basically my problem was that I was reading the tie rod making volumes from the Speidel manual. However if you are using the short malt pipe with the 50l the measurements are different. The third marking from the bottom of the tie rod is actually 30l and not 25l as I had assumed. Therefore the extra 5l of water explained my lack of efficiency. There is a thread elsewhere on the forum with a diagram about this.

I think Speidel need to document this better as its caught out quite a few users.
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Re: Poor Efficiency with 50L and Short Malt Pipe

Unread postby niels » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:35 am

bierfest wrote:There is a thread elsewhere on the forum with a diagram about this.

I suppose you mean this image: viewtopic.php?p=918#p918

:cheers:
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Re: Poor Efficiency with 50L and Short Malt Pipe

Unread postby hughjampton » Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:03 pm

When I bought my short pipe they included a bit of paper with a poor quality volume marking diagram printed on it.

The documentation provided by Speidel is abysmal at best. For such a high quality item, at such a high price I expected a lot better.
When the chill sciroco blows, and winter tells a heavy tale
When pies, and daws, and rooks and crows do sit and curse the frost and snows
Then give me ale.
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Re: Poor Efficiency with 50L and Short Malt Pipe

Unread postby hughjampton » Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:33 pm

ChilliMayne wrote:I'm unhappy with the way the extension bar is suppose to accommodate the malt pipe in place.
Not very well.
I thought it was too short also for the force of the pumps from my recollection.
Its been a while now and I have no intention of reminding myself other than it was a complete waste of time.


I've done a lot of brews using the short malt pipe and I've experienced neither of those problems. I find the extension piece fits perfectly and clamps the malt pipe down to give a good seal. The two pumps circulate the wort through the grain very effectively and I get a very even flow over the top of the pipe. The bigger coils give faster heating and a good strong rolling boil.
When the chill sciroco blows, and winter tells a heavy tale
When pies, and daws, and rooks and crows do sit and curse the frost and snows
Then give me ale.
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Re: Poor Efficiency with 50L and Short Malt Pipe

Unread postby Spiesy » Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:08 pm

hughjampton wrote:When I bought my short pipe they included a bit of paper with a poor quality volume marking diagram printed on it.

The documentation provided by Speidel is abysmal at best. For such a high quality item, at such a high price I expected a lot better.

I have to say I was disappointed with the rolled up and photocopied piece of paper that accompanied the short malt pipe too.

And the manual that came with the new 50L Brau is not befitting of such a quality piece of equipment.
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Re: Poor Efficiency with 50L and Short Malt Pipe

Unread postby royco » Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:18 am

Luxury! You were lucky. I didn't even get a piece of rolled up photocopy paper.
First brew was treated as 20L following the shared BM50/20 instruction book. Of course it was 20% lower OG than expected.
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Re: Poor Efficiency with 50L and Short Malt Pipe

Unread postby evildrakey » Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:43 am

My pipe came with instructions but the tape they attached on it had perished and I spent an hour with goo remover trying to get the tape residue off the stainless steel...
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