Boil off question

Experiencing technical problems? Look here for help!

Boil off question

Unread postby mattp94 » Fri May 08, 2015 11:45 am

I made my 2nd BM20 brew yesterday and noticed a considerable difference in my boil off rate compared to the first. Both were made with 5kg of pale malt and had similar preboil gravity and a 60 minute boil.

1st brew
Preboil volume 24 litres
Boil off 2.8 litres

2nd brew
Preboil volume 26 litres
Boil off 1.5 litres

Volumes are best estimates by using a dip stick to measure the depth of the wort but shouldn't be too far out. All other conditions were about the same but in the first I'd used only pellet hops and in the send there were 150g of leaf hops. Could this make a difference to boil off rates? Not sure how they would but something seems to be different. I did notice that the boil seemed to be more vigorous on one side of the BM, could it be that if I hadn't cleaned the heating coils properly they would be less efficient?
Last edited by mattp94 on Fri May 08, 2015 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mattp94
 
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:33 pm
Location: Cardiff, UK
Model: 20 litres (2015)

Re: Boil off question

Unread postby Nesto » Fri May 08, 2015 3:31 pm

Don't worry about the boil looking more vigorous on one side, that's normal. You should still make sure your coils are cleaned well. Get an inspection mirror and check the underside too. Do batch 3 and 4 and see what you get. There are many variables - ambient temp, air flow where you're brewing. Did you use a hop spider? Both those boil offs seem a bit small, are you using an insulation jacket? Or a hood/lid?
___________________________
Check out my brewing blog... http://www.sycamorecreekbrewing.com/
User avatar
Nesto
 
Posts: 790
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:03 pm
Location: Northern California
Model: 20 litres

Re: Boil off question

Unread postby mattp94 » Fri May 08, 2015 3:57 pm

Thanks for the feedback.
I'm using the Speidel insulated jacket but no hood or lid. On both brews I'd put the Speidel hop filter in before the boil but I am tempted to get a hop spider at some point soon as it would certainly make the clean up quicker and hopefully have less trub losses. The 2nd brew had 3.5 litres loss to trub but I think most of that was from the pile of leaf hops which came up past the heating coils once it was drained.

I'm not too concerned about this as I will still expect to have some great beer at the end of it. I'm probably just getting ahead of myself in that I want to be able to predict with some accuracy what the outcome will be from each stage.
mattp94
 
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:33 pm
Location: Cardiff, UK
Model: 20 litres (2015)

Re: Boil off question

Unread postby McMullan » Fri May 08, 2015 7:41 pm

Like Nesto writes, there are many variables. The BM is a great brew system, but you have to assess it over a number of brews in your environment with your way if doing things. Then you can start to optimise its capacity for your needs and start predicting with a surprising degree of accuracy, with or without fancy brewing software... I like beersmith, mainly for its inventory option. I definitely know what I can and can't brew at any particular time :wink:
McMullan
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:31 pm
Model: 20 litres

Re: Boil off question

Unread postby Puuppola Brewery » Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:37 pm

It seems to me that Braumeister is slightly under powered when trying to boil big batches. The last two batches I have had a problem getting a proper rolling boil.

The first time I was able to achieve it with putting the lid on until it were nearly coming over and then adjusting with the lid to have a strong boil while letting the steam out from the corner.

The 2nd time I had in the pot two 35cm length hop spiders and I also used the hood with ducting to ventilate the vapors straight out. Now, this setup made it pretty much impossible to achieve a proper rolling boil and the minute I turned on the extractor fan the temperature dropped at least a degree from 98 to 97C, which is not good at all I believe and there was much more proteins floating after the 90min "boil" then usual. The pre-boil volume was 60 liters, perhaps that's just too much for the meister?

So, what to do next. Any good suggestions? I have been thinking of a additional heater(Does anyone has experience of these?), but first I might try starting the boil with the lid on to get the rolling going and temp up to 99C before adding the spiders and extractors. I guess the other thing is to lower the volume in the tun. It's just that I finally got the process where I want it, with the efficiency up in the 85's starting with 55 liter mash water and sparging with 1.2l per kilo of grains.
Puuppola's Brewery
Positive problems #1 - Too much beer!
Puuppola Brewery
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:30 pm
Location: Puuppola, Finland
Model: 50 litres

Re: Boil off question

Unread postby Lindh » Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:57 pm

With the hood I get a too strong boil and are now researching possibilities to lower the strength... The boil gets like a angry vulcano!
User avatar
Lindh
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:09 am
Location: Sweden
Model: 50 litres

Re: Boil off question

Unread postby squadricus » Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:45 pm

What diameter is the opening on the Speidels hood?

Has anyone measured the current drawn during the boil? That might be a good diagnostic for a suspected weak boil. Some videos of high, average, and low boiling would be useful to refer to.

A RIMS heater and pump could possibly be fitted on the suction side of one of the BM pumps. I have a bucket heater I thought of trying. A flexible band heater or heat tape might be wrapped under the insulation.

I was wondering if the BM might be set in a pan of granular insulation to reduce the heat loss out of the bottom. Looking at mine upside down at the moment, covering the feet with shrink wrap, it looks like there'd room on the bottom for a payer or two of insulation. It'd be a bit of work, to remove everything from the bottom to do it properly. Might be possible to rig heat pipe(s) between the control system heat sink and the bottom.

Ultimately, I wonder if the exciting boil I expected from my 3V experience might be overkill. If the water balance is right, what does appearance really matter? Some more heat for shortening heatup times would be a nice upgrade, even if the boil is appropriate.
We are the 801, we are the central shaft
User avatar
squadricus
 
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:47 pm
Location: St. Louis MO USA
Model: 50 litres

Re: Boil off question

Unread postby Lindh » Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:08 pm

The opening is 100mm. If you don't experience off flavours from your boil, then why try to boil off more water? I think you try to solve a problem you don't have. Insulation and (if needed) hood should be sufficient or you might have some old residues on your element or even a faulty element.
User avatar
Lindh
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:09 am
Location: Sweden
Model: 50 litres

Re: Boil off question

Unread postby mashy » Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:07 pm

+1. Nicely put Lindh
User avatar
mashy
 
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:43 pm
Location: Mercia
Model: 20 litres

Re: Boil off question

Unread postby Puuppola Brewery » Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:19 pm

Lindh wrote:The opening is 100mm. If you don't experience off flavours from your boil, then why try to boil off more water? I think you try to solve a problem you don't have. Insulation and (if needed) hood should be sufficient or you might have some old residues on your element or even a faulty element.


Hi Lindh. Not sure whom you are replying to, but in my case it is about the clarity of the beer and a proper rolling boil should improve the hot break plus I wouldn't mind some extra melanoids and caramellization. The last boil was 90 minutes starting with 60 liters and that resulted in 7 liters boil-off, so I guess it's still pretty close to average, but I would have liked to see it bit more vigorous. As for the elements being broken or dirty, that is not the case, at least not for me.
Puuppola's Brewery
Positive problems #1 - Too much beer!
Puuppola Brewery
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:30 pm
Location: Puuppola, Finland
Model: 50 litres

Re: Boil off question

Unread postby Lindh » Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:42 pm

Yes I was replying to you. The boil without supplements should be enough to get good clarity, at least in my opinion and i'm pretty picky when it comes to clarity.

This is how I roll:

image.jpeg
User avatar
Lindh
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:09 am
Location: Sweden
Model: 50 litres

Re: Boil off question

Unread postby Puuppola Brewery » Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:52 pm

That is some sweet, sexy beer porn right there - congrats! Did you use any clearing agents to get to that awesome clarity?
Puuppola's Brewery
Positive problems #1 - Too much beer!
Puuppola Brewery
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:30 pm
Location: Puuppola, Finland
Model: 50 litres

Re: Boil off question

Unread postby Lindh » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:45 am

Yes, gelatin.
User avatar
Lindh
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:09 am
Location: Sweden
Model: 50 litres

Re: Boil off question

Unread postby Nesto » Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:01 am

Lindh wrote:Yes I was replying to you. The boil without supplements should be enough to get good clarity, at least in my opinion and i'm pretty picky when it comes to clarity.

This is how I roll:

image.jpeg

Love those style of glasses!
___________________________
Check out my brewing blog... http://www.sycamorecreekbrewing.com/
User avatar
Nesto
 
Posts: 790
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:03 pm
Location: Northern California
Model: 20 litres

Re: Boil off question

Unread postby Lindh » Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:50 pm

The glassware is called Teku from Teo Musso of Balladin.
User avatar
Lindh
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:09 am
Location: Sweden
Model: 50 litres


Return to Technical Support

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests