30L Insert for 50L BM

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30L Insert for 50L BM

Unread postby desupero » Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:05 pm

I was just wondering if anyone had considered using a maceration pot as a 30l insert. I looked at one today online and its 36cm in diameter. The BM 20l insert is 35cm so size wise it might work by cutting the bottom off. It also has a slightly tapperd bottom which probably ends up around 35cm allowing for the rubber seal to be placed on it. The picture attached is 36 liter version, the handles would need to be removed as well (of course). I know that the pot might be compromised if it's cut, but there are also aluminum/aluminium ones out there too, and maybe a little seal around mesh could cover the extra 1cm gap. Any thoughts on this out there?
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Re: 30L Insert for 50L BM

Unread postby niels » Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:00 am

That's a bit drastic for an extra 5 litres compared to the official short malt pipe...

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Re: 30L Insert for 50L BM

Unread postby desupero » Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:44 pm

I was thinking of a way to brew some bigger beers with the 5.5/6kg or so restriction with regards to the 20l instert...
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Re: 30L Insert for 50L BM

Unread postby niels » Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:28 pm

desupero wrote:I was thinking of a way to brew some bigger beers with the 5.5/6kg or so restriction with regards to the 20l instert...

Just to be clear: the short malt pipe for a BM50 is meant for 25 L brews, not 20 L.

I have brewed 23 L batches of 1.08x (without adding sugar) with the short malt pipe on a BM50.

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Re: 30L Insert for 50L BM

Unread postby MattSR » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:18 pm

Was that with double mashing niels?
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Re: 30L Insert for 50L BM

Unread postby niels » Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:41 pm

MattSR wrote:Was that with double mashing niels?

Nope, I don't do double mashing ;)

I'll have to check my logs, but I remember that the malt pipe was pretty full :)

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Re: 30L Insert for 50L BM

Unread postby desupero » Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:53 pm

Sorry i get a little confused I have a 50l BM but with the 25l insert (used in the 20l BM i think). I emailed BM and asked if they had considered another size malt pipe in between the current one available based on the current restrictions for bigger beers. The reply i received from Ralf was

"I understand what you mean.

But due the system the water amount rise together with the malt pipe size.

So if you want to have really high gravity beer you can make a double batch
with the same wort.

For a little more space for the malt you can also short the sleeve from the
top filter plate 2cm off."


So maybe getting a sleeve 2cm shorter might do the trick? What are your thoughts?
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Re: 30L Insert for 50L BM

Unread postby MattSR » Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:08 pm

niels wrote:
MattSR wrote:Was that with double mashing niels?

Nope, I don't do double mashing ;)

I'll have to check my logs, but I remember that the malt pipe was pretty full :)

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Thanks Niels!

My first brew had 11KG of grain and I only got 46L of wort at an OG of 1.047. Start volume was 55L also.

I'm trying to figure out how people get higher gravity from similar amounts of water and grain as my brew...
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Re: 30L Insert for 50L BM

Unread postby bruulog » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:09 pm

more grain and sparge, MattSR.
I make my own copper/ss chillers (immersion) - 20l & 50l and counterflow (cfc)
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30L Insert for 50L BM

Unread postby BrauTim » Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:51 pm

+1 for more sparge, also longer mash, overnight mashes will get 90% efficiency, 90 mins around 80%. Try a 3 hour mash. I got a 1.075 wort from 6.4 kg grain from an overnight last brew and I had issues to sort out so I should have got a bit more.
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Re: 30L Insert for 50L BM

Unread postby bruulog » Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:21 pm

BrauTim wrote:+1 for more sparge, also longer mash, overnight mashes will get 90% efficiency, 90 mins around 80%. Try a 3 hour mash. I got a 1.075 wort from 6.4 kg grain from an overnight last brew and I had issues to sort out so I should have got a bit more.


Are you sure this is going to help? Going over 90 min is probably total waste of time and energy because there is nothing left to convert to sugars.
You can do iodine tests in 10-15 min intervals and see, what's happening. I am almost sure that after 90 min the show is over (do not be surprised if it happens even before 60 min is up)

You can not hurry with pulling malt pipe out and mowing to the next step.
I pull the maltpipe out as little as I can and start sparging. Obviously you need to lift the pipe when wort level is rising. If I can , I leave up to 25 l for sparging.
I also use a small external pump (12 V) to recirculate the wort out form the BM spigot and back to the malt pipe. This helps to filter the wort and wash out more sugars and other good stuff that makes your ales taste good.
Sparge and let it drip. Take your time.
Yanking the pipe out when mashing programme is done, sends massive amounts of sugars and flavours to your garbage bin. Maybe this is OK, if you use "super" pale and almost tasteless "German" base malts and making lager or something like that.
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Re: 30L Insert for 50L BM

Unread postby BrauTim » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:56 pm

bruulog wrote:
BrauTim wrote:+1 for more sparge, also longer mash, overnight mashes will get 90% efficiency, 90 mins around 80%. Try a 3 hour mash. I got a 1.075 wort from 6.4 kg grain from an overnight last brew and I had issues to sort out so I should have got a bit more.


Are you sure this is going to help? Going over 90 min is probably total waste of time and energy because there is nothing left to convert to sugars.
You can do iodine tests in 10-15 min intervals and see, what's happening. I am almost sure that after 90 min the show is over (do not be surprised if it happens even before 60 min is up)


Well my evidence is anecdotal, it works for my setup, so yes, I believe it helps [for me]! As usual in brewing, the mash is far more complex to understand than simply basing it on time for conversion, if I could quote from John Palmer's 'How to Brew' Chapter 14.6:

"As always, time changes everything; it is the final factor in the mash. Starch conversion may be complete in only 30 minutes, so that during the remainder of a 60 minute mash, the brewer is working the mash conditions to produce the desired profile of wort sugars. Depending on the mash pH, water ratio and temperature, the time required to complete the mash can vary from under 30 minutes to over 90. At a higher temperature, a stiffer mash and a higher pH, the alpha amylase is favored and starch conversion will be complete in 30 minutes or less. Longer times at these conditions will allow the beta amylase time to breakdown more of the longer sugars into shorter ones, resulting in a more fermentable wort, but these alpha-favoring conditions are deactivating the beta; such a mash is self-limiting."

Even though we own the same equipment, we still apply plenty of variables in the form of different methods, water chemistry, volumes, malts, temperatures and times to our brewing, making it almost impossible for one brewer to repeat another brewers experiment and end up with the exact same result.

I believe that overnight mashing is a relatively new technique, that is not really widely practiced, has not been analysed in great detail nor written about by authoritative brewers (because it's not in general practice). So as a subject for experimentation there are still things to be discovered about what happens bio-chemically in an overnight mash, it's beyond me though, I just brew :D

My view is that during the long rest overnight, there is still Beta activity, albeit slow and low and also Alpha activity that are essentially still converting anything that is left in the malt providing a higher efficiency, of course I could be completely wrong, it's just an idea.
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Re: 30L Insert for 50L BM

Unread postby hughjampton » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:26 pm

I don't understand how shortening the sleeve will give you an extra 2 cm. The sleeve presses down onto the horizontal tube that holds the malt pipe in position. Am I missing something?

Turning the top filter upside down will give you an extra 2cm.
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