CIP whirlpool

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CIP whirlpool

Unread postby cpa4ny » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:31 am

At the moment, I only have a non-high temp rated pump that I use primarily for cleaning/sanitizing my Therminator PC (easy to use as the pump is self-priming).

It can only function up to 50C (125F), so I cannot use it to whirlpool the hops.

However, this weekend I came up with the idea of running a whirlpool CIP (clean-in-place) with PBW, similar to what they do at commercial brewhouses.

After circulating PBW @ around 45C for half an hour, it really cut down on the amount of scrubbing that I usually have to do.

I feel that the agitation in a circular manner really helped to dislodge the gunk.

SWMBO wasn't very happy that I "borrowed" her clothespins, but... oh, well...:P

Just wanted to share :cheers:

cip_whirlpool.jpg
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Re: CIP whirlpool

Unread postby bruulog » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:44 am

I thought that one of the ideas of CIP is that you do not need 3000 l of cleaning agent to clean 3000 l vessels. :)
If I recall correctly, I used only 6-7 l of cleaning solution (PBW and water mixture).

You have a pump. Get yourself stainless steel rotating CIP spray ball, make a simple frame (or modify BM' lid) and you are ready to go. You do not have to waste absurd amounts of water and PBW or what ever you like to use.

I use 5 l of cleaning solution to clean 50 l fermenter (this includes soaking to remove krausen).
If I had a pump, I'll probably get it done with <2 l.
I make my own copper/ss chillers (immersion) - 20l & 50l and counterflow (cfc)
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Re: CIP whirlpool

Unread postby Eriksbier » Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:59 pm

bruulog wrote:I thought that one of the ideas of CIP is that you do not need 3000 l of cleaning agent to clean 3000 l vessels. :)
If I recall correctly, I used only 6-7 l of cleaning solution (PBW and water mixture).

You have a pump. Get yourself stainless steel rotating CIP spray ball, make a simple frame (or modify BM' lid) and you are ready to go. You do not have to waste absurd amounts of water and PBW or what ever you like to use.

I use 5 l of cleaning solution to clean 50 l fermenter (this includes soaking to remove krausen).
If I had a pump, I'll probably get it done with <2 l.


Do you ahve a photo of this spray ball solution?
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Re: CIP whirlpool

Unread postby OldScotchAle » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:34 pm

I'd like to see that too.
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Re: CIP whirlpool

Unread postby bruulog » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:34 pm

I do not have the pump so I can not show you any pictures of final system.
I bought the CIP spray ball from e-bay and it looks like this:
cip_ball.gif
CIP ball
cip_ball.gif (30.07 KiB) Viewed 1870 times
I make my own copper/ss chillers (immersion) - 20l & 50l and counterflow (cfc)
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Re: CIP whirlpool

Unread postby Eriksbier » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:00 pm

But without the pump it does not work does it?
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Re: CIP whirlpool

Unread postby bruulog » Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:09 am

cpa4ny has all he needs to build it except the CIP ball and pipe (make it adjustable). You can buy those balls from e-bay for 1/3 what some shops ask.

Here is super simple drawing of what you need to build.
You have fermenter, lid , lid has a hole for CIP ball, hose and pump
CIP_0.jpg


Hight of your exit valve at the fermenter sets the minimal cleaning solution level. You need to have a bit extra, so you do not pull air in to your pump on the right (that round thing).

All you need from the pump, is to pump enough so the interior walls and lid is constantly wet with PBW solution. Find the lowest setting/speed and let it circulate it for 30 min and you are done. It is not the pressure, that cleans the walls, its PBW.
I make my own copper/ss chillers (immersion) - 20l & 50l and counterflow (cfc)
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Re: CIP whirlpool

Unread postby bruulog » Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:38 am

I am probably going to build something like this because the exit valve diameter is relatively small compared to what the pump exit diameter.

CIP_1.jpg


I am thinking about using a clear 7-8 mm plastic for the lid, that can be attach to the fermenter.
I am going to use dishwasher pump because those cost < 25 EUR and have enough power to circulate the cleaning solution.
Problem is, those are not self brimming so I need to figure out how to fill the hose and get the circulation going before I leave it upright position.
If the lid is attached, I can probably tilt the fermenter on it's side, start the pump and go from there.
I make my own copper/ss chillers (immersion) - 20l & 50l and counterflow (cfc)
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Re: CIP whirlpool

Unread postby cpa4ny » Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:49 am

Some really nice ideas, thanks Bruulog.

Only if my handyman skills matched my building aspirations :wink:
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Re: CIP whirlpool

Unread postby bruulog » Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:17 pm

I found few pumps and for the life of me, I can not get none of those pumps to push the water up the pipe.
Problem is, I know nothing about pumps so I do not understand, what am I doing wrong. :)

Pumps I have available to experiment are (I can return them, if they do not work)
1) LAING E1vario -11/000 - motor spins, impeller spins, but it fails to pump water as expected.

2) IMP PUMPS SAN ECO 15/15 B
http://imp-pumps.com/en/products/pumps_ ... o_15_15_b/

I kept the pump below the water level in the tank because those are not self-priming pumps.
Best I got out of one was 15 cm of above water level in the tank. This is not what I expected form 9W and 25W pumps.
BTW, Braumeister 50 l has 9 w pump that looks almost exactly the same as those 2 pumps.

1) I used 20 mm hose IN and 20 mm OUT - nothing. I assumed the exit hose diameter is too wide.
2) I used 20 mm hose in and 10 mm tube out - nothing. All I got was about 15 cm above the water level in the tank.

Any ideas what's wrong are welcome

No idea what is wrong with those.
I make my own copper/ss chillers (immersion) - 20l & 50l and counterflow (cfc)
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Re: CIP whirlpool

Unread postby HopSong » Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:47 pm

I can't help.. but, pumps, generally, are very good at pushing liquids.. but, poor at pulling liquids. For instance, in deep wells, there are "never" pumps at the top.. they are always submersible. I'm guessing you may have a bubble or ??
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Re: CIP whirlpool

Unread postby Eriksbier » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:15 pm

Bruulog, why can't you use the original braumeister pump?
In other post they used this pump for filling the fermenter also, so why not use this pump to clean the whole Braumeister with the CIP?
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Re: CIP whirlpool

Unread postby niels » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:56 am

Maybe a small sump pump from e.g. an aquarium might be an option? You just have to make sure the maximum liquid temperature, the Hmax and the flow rate in relation to the pump height. As the pump height increased the flow rate drops. And you still want a decent flow to be able to "squirt" the solution through the CIP ball.

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Re: CIP whirlpool

Unread postby Eriksbier » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:35 pm

Being able to hang a CIP in the current lid of the Braumeister would be a good new thing in my opinion.
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Re: CIP whirlpool

Unread postby hambrook » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:27 am

This video gave me lots of food for thought initially for a CIP for my Chronical fermenter but no reason why the same pump / solution should not work for a BM CIP system...


Fast Forward to 8mins 36 seconds (direct link):
https://youtu.be/wOmHBOSnwsw?t=8m36s
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