Hop filter Clone

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Re: Hop filter Clone

Unread postby bruulog » Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:33 pm

Wow, this is a lot of trub there
kstiglich wrote:1. Boil
2. Whirpool for 5 minutes with a spoon.
3. Cool with Immersion chiller to 23c
4. let it rest for 45 minutes to precipitate all trub
5. carefully fill my carboy to the top
6. depending on the finally trub in my carboy I will cold it to 5c and syphon to a new carboy or if few trub got into my carboy I will oxygenate it


I'd switch 4 and 3. I personally do not like the idea of having wort at 23C and waiting for transfer or what ever.

2 things you can try:
1) use a hose to transfer wort from your boiler to fermenter,keeping the hose just few cm below the wort level in your boiler.
2) You can reduce the amount of final trub in your boiler/fermenter just by skimming all that foamy crap off the wort before the hot brake happens.
Use stainless steel skimmer. This is the only sane way to do it. It only takes few minutes.
I make my own copper/ss chillers (immersion) - 20l & 50l and counterflow (cfc)
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Re: Hop filter Clone

Unread postby malzrohr » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:21 pm

Some nice articles on trub:

Skimming hot break during the boil is the most effective way to remove trub - for homebrewers - and has the most significant impact on the quality of the final product. The conclusion from the cold trub article suggests that removing cold trunk has less impact.
Es ist zwar ein sehr gutes Bier, die Goslarische Gose; doch wenn man meint, sie sey im Bauch, so liegt sie in der Hose.
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Re: Hop filter Clone

Unread postby DWP » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:51 pm

Although this thread was about a hop filter it is now about how to avoid trub into the FV.

We all have our technique and I will list mine that works for me and gets no trub into the FV ( it took a while to get this down pat )

1. end of boil crank up IC to chill the wort to 30c ( takes about 10mins )
2. remove IC and whirlpool with sanitized spoon ( i actaully do 15 anticlockwise motions to get the wort spinning..slight ocd...lol)
3. replace lid and leave to settle for 10mins ( during this time prepare FV for transfer )
4. open & close BM tap to remove 100mls of trub/wort that settles into the tap ( using a jug to catch this )
5. open BM tap 1/3 and allow this clear wort to transfer to the FV, mid way through open it 2/3rds.
6. when the wort gets down to the outlet level, I tilt the BM forward and place a piece of wood under the rear leg.
7. stop transfer of wort when settled trub starts to pull towards the outlet.

Using this method I then cool the wort down in the fridge to 17c and there is no visible trub cake on the base of the FV before i ad pure O2 and pitch the yeast.

This is all about to change though as I have changed to a CFC so it will require a whirlpool, settle for 10mins and then begin chilling and transfer...wont be able to avoid cold break.
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Re: Hop filter Clone

Unread postby BrauTim » Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:41 am

malzrohr wrote:Some nice articles on trub:

Skimming hot break during the boil is the most effective way to remove trub - for homebrewers - and has the most significant impact on the quality of the final product. The conclusion from the cold trub article suggests that removing cold trunk has less impact.


Thanks for the links to the articles. There is a common mixing of terms amongst homebrewers and I think that this has led to a misunderstanding of what Hot Break (Hot Trub in the articles) and foam are. Hot break is the formation of coagulated proteins that happens at some point during the boil. To ensure you have secured as much hot break as possible, then a good boil of at least 1hr 15mins is needed, it may happen earlier, it may happen later, but to maximise the potential, that is the recommended minimum boil length.

Hot break cannot be skimmed during the boil, you are referring to foam that forms on top of the boil, especially just before the boil and for a few mins afterwards, this is NOT Hot Break. This mixing of terms seems to be prevalent amongst homebrewers and leads to misunderstandings.

There is no harm in skimming the [hot] foam from the boiling wort, whether it is worth it is up for debate, only n+1 experimentation will determine that, it's another technique that we can use to improve the final beer.
To brew or not to brew, that would be a stupid question !
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Re: Hop filter Clone

Unread postby malzrohr » Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:40 pm

That is interesting.
What I understand from the "hot trub" article is that the foam and trub is basically the same thing: insoluble coagulated proteins.
During the first fase of the boil the physical factors favour the formation of foam (chunks of coagulated proteins large enough so that they can be skimmed).
After some boil time physical factors such as shearing action prevent the formation of foam and thus the insoluble coagulated protein particles (up to 80 microns in size, no skimmable) float around in the wort and settle after the boil.
Es ist zwar ein sehr gutes Bier, die Goslarische Gose; doch wenn man meint, sie sey im Bauch, so liegt sie in der Hose.
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Re: Hop filter Clone

Unread postby kstiglich » Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:11 pm

Initially, I couldn't identify the hot trub because hops were covering most of the wort surface, and I thought my fight was against hops, but now that I isolated hops with the hops filter, I clearly identified all the hot trub and figured out that my real war is against hot trub!
Now, I will try DWP method;
1. end of boil crank up IC to chill the wort to 30c ( takes about 10mins )
2. remove IC and whirlpool with sanitized spoon ( i actaully do 15 anticlockwise motions to get the wort spinning..slight ocd...lol)
3. replace lid and leave to settle for 10mins ( during this time prepare FV for transfer )
4. open & close BM tap to remove 100mls of trub/wort that settles into the tap ( using a jug to catch this )
5. open BM tap 1/3 and allow this clear wort to transfer to the FV, mid way through open it 2/3rds.
6. when the wort gets down to the outlet level, I tilt the BM forward and place a piece of wood under the rear leg.
7. stop transfer of wort when settled trub starts to pull towards the outlet.

How does other systems does this transferring from boiling to fermenter avoiding all hot trub? Typically whir pooling? Or there is any filtering way?
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Re: Hop filter Clone

Unread postby BrauTim » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:11 pm

malzrohr wrote:That is interesting.
What I understand from the "hot trub" article is that the foam and trub is basically the same thing: insoluble coagulated proteins.
During the first fase of the boil the physical factors favour the formation of foam (chunks of coagulated proteins large enough so that they can be skimmed).
After some boil time physical factors such as shearing action prevent the formation of foam and thus the insoluble coagulated protein particles (up to 80 microns in size, no skimmable) float around in the wort and settle after the boil.


OK, this is something that I've not seen in my wort's, I usually get an initial foam (that I sometimes skim before throwing in the hops) but I've never seen large chunks of break at this stage of the boil. This could be because I usually throw hops in at this stage and so don't see it or it just doesn't happen because of the malts I'm using, I'm not sure. Maybe the foam is the initial stage of protein coagulation, however it's not the same as the large chunks you get at the end especially when you have used Irish Moss or similar.

My setup is very effective at removing trub, my dip tube filter sits low in the BM, During and after IC cooling, the wort is left for approx an hour to settle, as the BM is drained, the hops act as a massive filter bed trapping the vast majority of cold break.
To brew or not to brew, that would be a stupid question !
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Re: Hop filter Clone

Unread postby Wobbly » Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:49 pm

BrauTim

You may have posted details of your hop tube/filter before but a quick search doesn't revel them for me I'm particularly interested in see how it "sits low in the BM"

My setup is very effective at removing trub, my dip tube filter sits low in the BM,

Can you indicate where to find them or post them here

Thanks

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Re: Hop filter Clone

Unread postby niels » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:37 am

Wobbly wrote:BrauTim

You may have posted details of your hop tube/filter before but a quick search doesn't revel them for me I'm particularly interested in see how it "sits low in the BM"

My setup is very effective at removing trub, my dip tube filter sits low in the BM,

Can you indicate where to find them or post them here

You can find BrauTim's post about his combined hop filter and dip tube here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=62

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