Yield increase by blocking disks

Did you pimp your Braumeister? Show us your mods!

Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby mashy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:48 am

chastuck wrote:I'm still not convinced that the bottom plate doesn't move up when the pumps in a 50L BM are running. Mashy's comments doesn't make allowances for the hydraulic pressures that could build up in a closed space beneath the Malt tube. Even a small pump will create considerable hydraulic pressure if the outlet is constrained and the pump is running continuously. As I said previously, I will try it out when I brew later this week.
Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk


Try it. I do regulary - I modded my BM to have a lower pumped tap. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2238&p=20933&hilit=Lower+pump+tap#p20933

The pump is approaching its limit driving wash water over the top lip of the kettle.
Connect it to a hose, put your finger over the end - it stops.

" a small pump will create considerable hydraulic pressure" agreed - but not this type - these are centrifugal pumps not diaphragm pressure pumps - designed for flow not pressure.
User avatar
mashy
 
Posts: 2718
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:43 pm
Location: Mercia
Model: 20 litres

Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby Joe1002 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:19 pm

mashy wrote: TOP DISK

It is NOT moved up by pressure of the pump, for the reasons above.

Errr, yes it is. I spend a good 5-10 mins stirring the mash, place the filter plates on top and then put the tie rod on. The filter plates do not move at all until the pump is activated. When the pump rests the filter plates move down again, and raise when the pump starts up again. Therefore in my experience their movement up and down is solely as a result of the pump.
Joe1002
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:10 pm
Model: 20 litres (2015)

Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby chastuck » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:27 pm

Joe1002 wrote:
mashy wrote: TOP DISK

It is NOT moved up by pressure of the pump, for the reasons above.

Errr, yes it is. I spend a good 5-10 mins stirring the mash, place the filter plates on top and then put the tie rod on. The filter plates do not move at all until the pump is activated. When the pump rests the filter plates move down again, and raise when the pump starts up again. Therefore in my experience their movement up and down is solely as a result of the pump.
Exactly my experience. Although when I use the BAC top plate you do not see this.

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk
User avatar
chastuck
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:21 pm
Location: Beckenham, Kent
Model: 50 litres (2015)

Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby homoeccentricus » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:38 pm

As I mentioned before, the pump stops working at regular intervals to loosen up the malt. What exactly happens there? Some effect caused by the pump is stopped.
homoeccentricus
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby mashy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:39 pm

By how much? Is there any evidence that the bottom disc is moving?

Supporting the TOP disk (silicone ring or bac brewing or 15mm pipe) will give the grain more room/less compaction.
Therefore should/could increase efficiency.
User avatar
mashy
 
Posts: 2718
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:43 pm
Location: Mercia
Model: 20 litres

Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby IPA » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:38 pm

Of course the pump pressure lifts the grain and the top filter. Just take the lid off and watch it at the start and during a pump pause. It is the grain rising by the pump pressure that lifts the top filters. Do you really think that the grain stays in place and somehow the top filters rise and fall?
IPA
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:16 am
Location: France
Model: 50 litres

Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby chastuck » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:16 pm

Well, I had a brew today on my 50L BM and put in 53L of water. Before I added any grain I put the malt tube in position with the bottom two plates in place. I turned the pumps on and the water level dropped outside the malt tube and rose up inside the malt tube. The bottom two plates did not budge and stayed in their lower position. So, in my BM the bottom plates do not go up when the pumps are on.
User avatar
chastuck
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:21 pm
Location: Beckenham, Kent
Model: 50 litres (2015)

Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby Wobbly » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:45 pm

chastuck wrote:Well, I had a brew today on my 50L BM and put in 53L of water. Before I added any grain I put the malt tube in position with the bottom two plates in place. I turned the pumps on and the water level dropped outside the malt tube and rose up inside the malt tube. The bottom two plates did not budge and stayed in their lower position. So, in my BM the bottom plates do not go up when the pumps are on.


Well that is understandable as you are offering only a small amount of resistance to the pump flow/pressure. When you add your grain that increases the resistance to the flow and basic physics will then kick in to the point that the bottom plate and grain will be pushed upwards until the top plate comes up against resistance ie the hold down bar.

my 2c worth

Wobbly
Wobbly
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:57 am
Location: Bibra Lake Western Australia 6163
Model: 20 litres

Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby chastuck » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:44 pm

Wobbly wrote:
chastuck wrote:Well, I had a brew today on my 50L BM and put in 53L of water. Before I added any grain I put the malt tube in position with the bottom two plates in place. I turned the pumps on and the water level dropped outside the malt tube and rose up inside the malt tube. The bottom two plates did not budge and stayed in their lower position. So, in my BM the bottom plates do not go up when the pumps are on.


Well that is understandable as you are offering only a small amount of resistance to the pump flow/pressure. When you add your grain that increases the resistance to the flow and basic physics will then kick in to the point that the bottom plate and grain will be pushed upwards until the top plate comes up against resistance ie the hold down bar.

my 2c worth

Wobbly

I hope you are right because my natural inclination is to believe that the bottom plates do in fact rise. I will have to think of a way of trying this with grain in the malt tube. Perhaps next brew I will only initially put half the grain in the tube without the top plates. If I stand a vertical rod in the grains I should see it pushed up through the grain by the rising bottom plate. I will need to be quick to turn the pump off after my observation to prevent grain going over the top of the malt tube.
User avatar
chastuck
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:21 pm
Location: Beckenham, Kent
Model: 50 litres (2015)

Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby Sladek789 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:34 am

I actually have a stainless steel tube to hold the two filters separated, I have a BM50 and the tube is 33.5cm long, 2cm wide.

The use of it is pretty easy (adding it right after putting the bottom filter and mesh) and I made it for two main reasons:

1- to allow more malt movement during the pump breaks. But I made the assumption that the bottom was moving up and down during mashing when the pump was working and stopping. I see now that it might not be true.

2 - to better extract sugar from malt, during lifting and sparging. During my first brew without it, I noticed that once I lifted the malt pipe, a lot of wort (and some malt particles) drained very quickly through the hole that was made by the central pole. Then during sparging, even if the hole was at some point filled by malt, I was visible that the grain bed in that area was weaker and most of the sparge water went through it (channeling is to be avoided during sparging), so I guess poorly extracting the sugar left in the rest of the malt pipe. Since I have the tube, no more issue during lifting, nor sparging, the malt bed stay intact the whole time.

Therefore I would recommend it to everyone, even the people who are not sparging. It is a simple, fairly cheap BM addition, and even if it is not major breakthrough as a BM modification, it can only help.

See how it looks.
Malt pipe tube.jpg
Last edited by Sladek789 on Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Sladek789
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 3:45 pm
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Model: 50 litres

Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby homoeccentricus » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:15 am

I think I feel confident enough to try this out with the BAC extension plate.
So during my next brew I will apply the following low oxygen procedure (please feel free to apply the autism spectrum diagnosis, as others have done on another forum):
1. Put bottom filter and mesh
2. Put stainless steel blocking pipe <-- new item in procedure
3. Add grains
4. Start adding mash water from another kettle to the bottom of the BM (underletting)
5. When water level almost reaches upper malt pipe level, stop adding water and stir carefully
6. Put top mesh and BAC filter
7. Put mash cap
8. Put screw
9. Add more mash water until mash cap floats
10. Start applying the 6-step mash
11. Pray that efficiency will increase
homoeccentricus
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby mikeschmidt » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:28 am

homoeccentricus wrote:10. Start applying the 6-step mash


What are your 6 steps?
mikeschmidt
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:55 pm
Model: 20 litres

Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby homoeccentricus » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:46 pm

mikeschmidt wrote:
homoeccentricus wrote:10. Start applying the 6-step mash


What are your 6 steps?


"Standard" low oxygen mash steps based upon http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/wp-cont ... /pkjdf.pdf and http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/wp-cont ... ddvxvf.pdf

All-purpose mash schedule for all types of beer (prob. except Weizen). Also takes into account fluctuations in gelatinization temperatures of crops.

mash temp rest times
55C mash in, no rest
62C 20m
64C 20m
67C 20m
72C 30m
78c 10m

Other variations in temperature and time are obviously possible.
homoeccentricus
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby kahobro » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:27 pm

I think keeping the lower plate down will not change compression of the malt bed. I think the pump pressure on the malt will compact the malt bed then.
kahobro
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 6:45 pm
Model: 20 litres

Previous

Return to Modifications

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests