Yield increase by blocking disks

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Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby homoeccentricus » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:52 pm

Someone on a Dutch forum has suggested that the yield of the mash can be increased by not allowing the bottom disk to be pushed upward while the pump is active. This would make the grain bed less compact. He does this by simply putting a metal pipe between the disks so that the distance between the disks cannot decrease. Is this a known mod? Would this work?
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Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby mashy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:13 pm

15mm copper pipe on the centre.

I personally don't this the pump is that strong. Fiddlefaddle and rot if you ask me.
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Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby chastuck » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:59 pm

mashy wrote:15mm copper pipe on the centre.

I personally don't this the pump is that strong. Fiddlefaddle and rot if you ask me.
I'm not so sure. If you think about it the pump lifts the top two filters as the wort is pumped through the grain.

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Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby homoeccentricus » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:49 pm

chastuck wrote:
mashy wrote:15mm copper pipe on the centre.

I personally don't this the pump is that strong. Fiddlefaddle and rot if you ask me.
I'm not so sure. If you think about it the pump lifts the top two filters as the wort is pumped through the grain.

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Ah yes, he uses the bacbrewing extension disk, I believe. That wouldn't move.
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Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby chastuck » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:59 pm

homoeccentricus wrote:
chastuck wrote:
mashy wrote:15mm copper pipe on the centre.

I personally don't this the pump is that strong. Fiddlefaddle and rot if you ask me.
I'm not so sure. If you think about it the pump lifts the top two filters as the wort is pumped through the grain.

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Ah yes, he uses the bacbrewing extension disk, I believe. That wouldn't move.
Ok. I see know. I'm just about to brew a wit beer. Lots of flaked oats and quite a stodgy mash. I might well try the copper pipe idea with my BAC disk.

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Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby homoeccentricus » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:09 pm

mashy wrote:15mm copper pipe on the centre.

I personally don't this the pump is that strong. Fiddlefaddle and rot if you ask me.
Could you translate into English and explain the pump thing please? Thanks :)
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Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby mashy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:08 pm

Okaaaaay
That puts a completely different spin on it. I thought you were referring to the bottom plate......

I haven't got the bac brewing thing, but I do have a silicone seal which is a snug fit. My top disk doesn't move. Well it did on the very first run, produced a fountain and was subsequently never allowed to move again.

I always use 5kg ish of grain and have never suffered poor efficiency do I think I might change my answer.

That said... I think a silicone seal might be better than a copper support.
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Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby homoeccentricus » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:29 pm

But the theory is that the lower disk rises, and that should not be allowed as the grains are then compressed.
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Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby homoeccentricus » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:32 pm

I'm kind of getting desperate with no sparge low oxygen brewing with the malt pipe crammed and the water level higher than the pipe. :)
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Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby mashy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:16 am

homoeccentricus wrote:But the theory is that the lower disk rises, and that should not be allowed as the grains are then compressed.



LOWER DISK

NO.
REALLY REALLY Don't think so. The pump just isn't strong enough.

Are we really even considering that a centrifugal pump the size of a mug, can lift a
5 kilo weight through a 1/2 inch hole, in a 10 inch (ish) bore mash tube?

Better, let me qualify that, I am not a professor of fluid dynamics engineering, however I am the chap that has remodelled the pump work on a BM 20, trialling various things, and actually use and handle (physically) the output from that pump. I am reasonably intelligent and quite handy. My answer is absolutely no chance.

... And when the pump cuts out you would hear a clank as it landed. You don't.

... You would see and hear it moving when the pump vented. You don't.

... There would be a day when you opened it and found it wonky in the bottom. You don't.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet, some people have a very short wire between their brain and the keyboard.

One word. FiddleFaddleAndRot :D
Last edited by mashy on Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby mashy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:38 am

homoeccentricus wrote:I'm kind of getting desperate with no sparge low oxygen brewing with the malt pipe crammed and the water level higher than the pipe. :)


Desperate for what? More efficiency or more alcohol %
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Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby mashy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:42 am

chastuck wrote:
mashy wrote:15mm copper pipe on the centre.

I personally don't this the pump is that strong. Fiddlefaddle and rot if you ask me.

I'm not so sure. If you think about it the pump lifts the top two filters as the wort is pumped through the grain.

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TOP DISK

It moves up as the grain bed absorbs water and swells up. It is NOT moved up by pressure of the pump, for the reasons above.

Supporting the TOP disk (silicone ring or bac brewing) will give the grain more room/less compaction. Therefore should/could/maybe increase efficiency.

Someone ought to try this (with and without) on 2 identical brews.

This might be why I have never had efficiency or conversion problems. Always have used a supported top disc, it was my first mod.
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Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby homoeccentricus » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:23 am

mashy wrote:
homoeccentricus wrote:I'm kind of getting desperate with no sparge low oxygen brewing with the malt pipe crammed and the water level higher than the pipe. :)


Desperate for what? More efficiency or more alcohol %
It's the whole low oxygen thing. No sparging, water above pipe level.
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Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby homoeccentricus » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:24 am

What's the thing with the pump stopping from time to time to loosen up the malt?
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Re: Yield increase by blocking disks

Unread postby chastuck » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:29 am

I'm still not convinced that the bottom plate doesn't move up when the pumps in a 50L BM are running. Mashy's comments doesn't make allowances for the hydraulic pressures that could build up in a closed space beneath the Malt tube. Even a small pump will create considerable hydraulic pressure if the outlet is constrained and the pump is running continuously. As I said previously, I will try it out when I brew later this week.

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