A very cheap (economical) domed lid.

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Re: A very cheap (economical) domed lid.

Unread postby Nesto » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:02 am

Dicko wrote:
Nesto wrote:
Of course, I did have a boil over - caught it while it was still early! I think maybe the cover won't go on until after I see the hot break. I use a hop spider most of the time and still had a vigorous boil despite the cm gap from the hop spider bolts. Evaporation losses remained about the same as without the cover - 3.8 liters per hour.

There is a definite R2D2 feel to the Braumeister now...
BM Dome Lid.jpg


Nesto,
The boil over you mentioned may have contributed to the differing boil off figure.
I have measured mine over 5 brews now and I seem to be fairly close for my equipment.

that is one good looking dome mate :D :cheers:

Yeah, probably a little extra. But there wasn't much boil over - caught it quick. And I had to boil for 2.5 hours (I'm not ready to blame the full volume mash yet) because I was quite short on my pre-boil gravity. So I'm pretty sure there was a decrease, but will need another boil-over-free-data-point before being sure.
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Re: A very cheap (economical) domed lid.

Unread postby Dicko » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:06 am

Nesto wrote:
Dicko wrote:
Nesto wrote:
Of course, I did have a boil over - caught it while it was still early! I think maybe the cover won't go on until after I see the hot break. I use a hop spider most of the time and still had a vigorous boil despite the cm gap from the hop spider bolts. Evaporation losses remained about the same as without the cover - 3.8 liters per hour.

There is a definite R2D2 feel to the Braumeister now...
BM Dome Lid.jpg


Nesto,
The boil over you mentioned may have contributed to the differing boil off figure.
I have measured mine over 5 brews now and I seem to be fairly close for my equipment.

that is one good looking dome mate :D :cheers:

Yeah, probably a little extra. But there wasn't much boil over - caught it quick. And I had to boil for 2.5 hours (I'm not ready to blame the full volume mash yet) because I was quite short on my pre-boil gravity. So I'm pretty sure there was a decrease, but will need another boil-over-free-data-point before being sure.


No worries Nesto, I was like you on my first use of the dome and nearly had a big mess to clean up except I was watching it. :lol:
I do as you suggested and put the lid on after the hot break has fallen in...usually a minute or two
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Re: A very cheap (economical) domed lid.

Unread postby rocketman » Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:22 pm

Got a really vigorous boil, had the dome on for about half of the time. Evaporation was about the same something like -6% but will record a couple of brews to see if it stays the same.

uploadfromtaptalk1402158136740.jpg
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Re: A very cheap (economical) domed lid.

Unread postby Dicko » Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:20 am

I just checked my boil off rate and it is 10.3% or as I have my software set for an 80 minute boil, I boil off 4 litres in that period.

Cheers
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Re: A very cheap (economical) domed lid.

Unread postby perdido » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:54 pm

Questions to the OP:


What's your set temperature for boiling?

Are you base off somewhere in high altitude?

I have my boiling temperature set point at 102ºC, like it has been suggested in other forums. I use the Speidel thermal jacket which helps quite a bit.
I feel that my boil is vigorous enough, but maybe I'm missing out on better hop utilisation.
Also I am at 600m above sea level, which reduces boiling temperature a bit.

Cheers
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Re: A very cheap (economical) domed lid.

Unread postby Dicko » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:19 pm

perdido wrote:Questions to the OP:


What's your set temperature for boiling?

Are you base off somewhere in high altitude?

I have my boiling temperature set point at 102ºC, like it has been suggested in other forums. I use the Speidel thermal jacket which helps quite a bit.
I feel that my boil is vigorous enough, but maybe I'm missing out on better hop utilisation.
Also I am at 600m above sea level, which reduces boiling temperature a bit.

Cheers


I am a stones throw from the sea so I would estimate my altitude to be no more than 6 metres above sea level.
I set my boil temp to 102 deg c as recommended by Speidel.
I have a jacket for my BM and although it is not the genuine accessory it does insulate quite well.

I am very pleased with my dome and how it works.
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Re: A very cheap (economical) domed lid.

Unread postby perdido » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:54 am

Batz wrote:
Andy wrote:I've made a lid the same as those posted here. I'm not too concerned about condensation - it's just a cheaper version of the Speidel lid, so if it's good enough for Speidel, it's good enough for me.


I agree totally, you know some very good breweries agree with us also.


Industrial kettles like the ones you show do usually do have a system to avoid condensate dripping back into the kettle. The inside of the stack has a small tray around it and a drain that comes off the side. This is the case with industrial setups with rather tall stacks that would promote a lot of condensate falling back into the kettle.

I wouldn't worry about condensate coming from the dome on a braumeister unless you also make a steam stack several meters tall!
As others have mentioned, the original Speidel copper dome has a seal around it.

I know of one commercial brewer (Rolling Rock from the USA) whose beer's main character is DMS, so the stack from the kettle is very tall with no condensate removing system. This way they assure that they don't lose their DMS character. There are other methods to ensure a high DMS content in your beer and it depends mainly on the malting process where they can target DMS precursors.

Cheers :cheers:
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Re: A very cheap (economical) domed lid.

Unread postby perdido » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:58 am

Dicko wrote:
I am a stones throw from the sea so I would estimate my altitude to be no more than 6 metres above sea level.
I set my boil temp to 102 deg c as recommended by Speidel.
I have a jacket for my BM and although it is not the genuine accessory it does insulate quite well.

I am very pleased with my dome and how it works.


That means that your boil should be more vigurous than mine (a bit higer temperature). I would definitely look into making a dome like yours as I feel that I'm not getting the IBUs that the recipe says. Also I have no way on measuring hop utilisation.

As far as making the dome goes, did you do anything in particular to repassivate the stainless where you cut it? Did you do an acid bath or the like?
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Re: A very cheap (economical) domed lid.

Unread postby royco » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:06 am

50L Lid:

The biggest size domed S bowl available here is too small but I found a flat-bottomed one for $20 that works well. Added a sawn-off $2 plastic funnel for pouring in malt as the flat base causes mischief.
This definitely is an epic fail on the R2D2-ness index but it is all I could find.
The ID is a precise fit on the BM and for some reason no condensate runs down the side of the unit. Maybe the funnel effect induces a slight negative pressure at the interface, which is not clamped.
The hole was cut using a 100mm hole saw on a hand held electric drill as my bench drill was too small to accommodate the bowl. YES, it was very stupid and yes, I knew what I was doing and anticipated the big kickbacks which inevitably happened. Please don't try this. Doctor Dremel's miracle tool is way safer.

Incidentally the valve is a 3/4" with a Gardena 3/4" fitting which gives a nice big 14mm bore. I am waiting for a Raco brass connector to arrive.

NOTE to Niels: I carefully chose a chroma green background cloth to try and negate "Strike One!" that I incurred for a comment on the blue forum theme :wink:

Funnel.JPG
Malt funnel

Lid.JPG
50L lid
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Re: A very cheap (economical) domed lid.

Unread postby royco » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:08 am

PS nearly had my first boil-over using this plus a sleeping bag as a jacket.
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Re: A very cheap (economical) domed lid.

Unread postby Dicko » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:48 pm

perdido wrote:
Dicko wrote:
I am a stones throw from the sea so I would estimate my altitude to be no more than 6 metres above sea level.
I set my boil temp to 102 deg c as recommended by Speidel.
I have a jacket for my BM and although it is not the genuine accessory it does insulate quite well.

I am very pleased with my dome and how it works.


That means that your boil should be more vigurous than mine (a bit higer temperature). I would definitely look into making a dome like yours as I feel that I'm not getting the IBUs that the recipe says. Also I have no way on measuring hop utilisation.

As far as making the dome goes, did you do anything in particular to repassivate the stainless where you cut it? Did you do an acid bath or the like?


I cut the hole with a Dremel and two new cutting discs were required.
It is important that you use new discs as you dont want any contamination from any metal that may be left in a used disc.
I washed the finished product with Phosphoric Acid and the edge is in good condition.
I intend to get some finishing attachments for my Dremel and when I have spare time I will sit an carefully smooth off the edge.
At the moment is it a reasonably neat hole but the edge is just a little too sharp so I have placed a piece of neoprene channel around it to protect my fingers should I inadvertently touch it.
As it was mentioned an insulated or wooden knob or handle is essential. Do not try to use a dome without one as they get extremely hot.

With regard to hop utilisation it can all be a matter of personal perception.
I found that going from a 3v system with a quite vigorous gas burner to the BM with a very tame electric element that my recipes were not as bitter of even had the hop flavour than I was getting previously.
My dome has most definitely improved the bitterness if I compare the same recipe with the same hop additions over the two breweries.
If you are only starting out and your first brewery is a BM then with good software eg Beersmith, you can adjust the hop utilisation figures to achieve the desired result. With Beersmith you can start with the default and go from there.
Because the boil on my 3v system was quite vigorous I used to have my software set on Rager formula but now I use Tinseth and generally with the less aggressively hopped beers it is very good for my personal taste.
Since using my Dome I have noticed a definite improvement in clarity of the finished beer and I believe that this has come about as a direct result of a more vigorous boil.
I have deliberately brewed lighter coloured Pilseners to test for DMS and I have not detected any evidence of this, in fact, the beers I have brewed in this category have definitely been a cleaner tasting sample.

I would like it if other dome users who have brewed with and without the dome can report on their personal observations and tasting results. :cheers:
Wow! After typing all that I need a :drink: :lol:
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Re: A very cheap (economical) domed lid.

Unread postby Dicko » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:53 pm

royco wrote:PS nearly had my first boil-over using this plus a sleeping bag as a jacket.


That is a neat looking dome royco.

I have to watch my kettle very closely now to prevent a boil over and I never had to worry about it prior to using the dome.

I might add as well that I have noticed that there is a lot more foaming with a mid boil hop addition than I was getting before. Yesterday I did a brew with a major hop addition at 10 minutes from end and that foamed up as big as any start of boil hot break.
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Re: A very cheap (economical) domed lid.

Unread postby royco » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:45 am

Yes Dicko, I noticed that too. Had foam coming out of the top. I never bothered to watch the boil before. Once I lifted the lid for a minute it settled and then behaved quite well with a vigorous but controlled boil.
You are right about needing a handle. I used gloves but they had cotton backing so the steam burnt the hell out of the back of my hand causing some new words to be uttered!
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Re: A very cheap (economical) domed lid.

Unread postby perdido » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:16 pm


I cut the hole with a Dremel and two new cutting discs were required.
It is important that you use new discs as you dont want any contamination from any metal that may be left in a used disc.
I washed the finished product with Phosphoric Acid and the edge is in good condition.
I intend to get some finishing attachments for my Dremel and when I have spare time I will sit an carefully smooth off the edge.
At the moment is it a reasonably neat hole but the edge is just a little too sharp so I have placed a piece of neoprene channel around it to protect my fingers should I inadvertently touch it.
As it was mentioned an insulated or wooden knob or handle is essential. Do not try to use a dome without one as they get extremely hot.

With regard to hop utilisation it can all be a matter of personal perception.
I found that going from a 3v system with a quite vigorous gas burner to the BM with a very tame electric element that my recipes were not as bitter of even had the hop flavour than I was getting previously.
My dome has most definitely improved the bitterness if I compare the same recipe with the same hop additions over the two breweries.
If you are only starting out and your first brewery is a BM then with good software eg Beersmith, you can adjust the hop utilisation figures to achieve the desired result. With Beersmith you can start with the default and go from there.
Because the boil on my 3v system was quite vigorous I used to have my software set on Rager formula but now I use Tinseth and generally with the less aggressively hopped beers it is very good for my personal taste.
Since using my Dome I have noticed a definite improvement in clarity of the finished beer and I believe that this has come about as a direct result of a more vigorous boil.
I have deliberately brewed lighter coloured Pilseners to test for DMS and I have not detected any evidence of this, in fact, the beers I have brewed in this category have definitely been a cleaner tasting sample.

I would like it if other dome users who have brewed with and without the dome can report on their personal observations and tasting results. :cheers:
Wow! After typing all that I need a :drink: :lol:


Thanks for the extensive reply.

This is my first homebrewery in a while and have vague recollection of what I have brewed in other systems in the past.
I do use Beersmith software and have always found the default 100% utilisation figure rather optimistic.

As far as repassivating the dome, did you use straight 75% phosphoric?
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Re: A very cheap (economical) domed lid.

Unread postby Dicko » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:23 pm

Hi perdido,

I brushed on 85% Phosphoric acid which is food grade and the only Phosphoric acid I had.
I genearally use it for PH adjustments with brewing water.

After I brushed it on, I washed it with neat Starsan which contains Phosphoric acid and a surfactant (soap)
I then rinsed it in clean water.
:cheers:
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