Anyone using the jacket to cool wort?

Because the 200 L and 500 L units are a different league, we'll grant them their own sub-forum.
Beaver71
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:25 pm
Model: 20 litres

Anyone using the jacket to cool wort?

Unread post by Beaver71 »

I have heard a few people say the jacket is useless for cooling wort. That said, it typically turns out that they are using ground water and not glycol from a chiller. Would like to get around using a heat exchanger if possible. This would be for a 200l in a very small space.

thx :cheers:

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mashy
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Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:43 pm
Model: 20 litres
Location: Mercia

Re: Anyone using the jacket to cool wort?

Unread post by mashy »

I agree. The issue with the jacket on the smaller units is surface area and the huge amount of ground water & time it uses.
These jackets SS tanks/kettles are used all over, ofter with a stirrer or pump. I think its just not the best fit/value/timeliness on the smaller units. Particularly when the immersion/plate options are easy, cheap and fast

If you had a closed glycol curcuit to a chiller I would expect this to work much better. It gets my thumbs up, but I have no experience to rely on. I would still not expect it to be as quick as a immersion/plate, but a better a solution. No waste and 'turn on and forget. I would perhaps automate a simple shutdown on temp with a pid?

Beaver71
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:25 pm
Model: 20 litres

Re: Anyone using the jacket to cool wort?

Unread post by Beaver71 »

Thx Mashy

If it works I was thinking either run a second circuit, or buying a dedicated cooling unit. I already have a Kreyer Chilly 45. When I get my BM 200L I’ll hook it up and see how it performs.
This probably sounds like over complication of a simple process to most but my brewing area is small and if I can eliminate some equipment and cleaning time that would be good. I’ll be a one man band except for hiring a server for the weekends.

There is a brewery in Florida that claims to use the jacket for cooling (https://www.boneislandbrewing.com/speid ... ister.html). They are a reseller of Speidel products so that makes me a bit skeptical. I need to contact them.

Or maybe I can be a no-chill brewery  :D

Castlebrew
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Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:34 pm
Model: 200 litres
Location: Lostwithiel, Cornwall
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Re: Anyone using the jacket to cool wort?

Unread post by Castlebrew »

I use the cooling jacket for my 200bm. Usually takes about 1 hour 20mins in the winter and 2 hrs 20mins in the summer. I aim for 24 deg C and use the Chilly to finish it off in the fermenter. My mains water is around 19/20 deg C in the summer and 10/11 deg in the winter. With advice from Ralf I've amended the parameters on my Chilly and used Glycol, but it doesn't work. Only other option is to upgrade to the next Chilly. Using the jacket is feasible for the 200BM, but not for the 500BM. Just look at the technical spec. The jacket surface area to the volume means the 200BM is better placed to chill without an external plate chiller, but the 500BM and above is defintelely a no go.

Beaver71
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:25 pm
Model: 20 litres

Re: Anyone using the jacket to cool wort?

Unread post by Beaver71 »

Thanks Castlebrew,

Sounds like you use the ground water to chill the jacket? Didn't quite understand where you said "With advice from Ralf I've amended the parameters on my Chilly and used Glycol, but it doesn't work". Did you try using the Chilly to cool the jacket, and if so what model?

I have the Chilly 45 and I'm looking to get a 200BM. If I can make it work with a second circuit or QD's that would be great, if not I'll just get a counter flow chiller and stop pissing in the wind.

Thx,
Mike.

modin
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:40 am
Model: 200 litres
Location: South Bavaria, 87616 Marktoberdorf

Re: Anyone using the jacket to cool wort?

Unread post by modin »

Hi Mike,
i also run a BM200 and do the same thing as Castlebrew does. I use the jacket and ground water, having 10°C or below during winter time and approx. 15°C during summer.

In order to cool down the ground water even further i used my chiller (chills 4 TABEC conicals 300 liters), switch the cooling circuit to a plate chiller and run my ground water through it. That gives me another 3-5°C lower ground water temp that i run into the BM200 jacket.

So i achieve in summer: 1:15h from 97°C to 20°C for top fermenting beer, 2:15h from 97°C to 16°C for low fermenting (i know that the freaks will laugh but as soon as it is in the tank together with the yeast i cool down further and beer tastes great, never had an issue)

In winter deduct 20 min. as water is colder.

Hope that helps, best regards,

Martin

Beaver71
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:25 pm
Model: 20 litres

Re: Anyone using the jacket to cool wort?

Unread post by Beaver71 »

Hi Martin,

Thank you for the reply. Sounds like you and Castlebrew are able to get the wort down to the low 20's with the jacket and then pump it to the fermentor to bring it down to pitching temp. I like your idea of using the chiller to cool the ground water! I never thought of that. If I'm reading your process correctly, you run your water for 1 - 2 hours to cool the wort and run the hot water down the drain? Sounds like a lot of wasted water (no offense). Here in California my home water bill is almost 2X what my electric bill is. That said, not having to clean the plate chiller would be great.

Another option I was thinking about was using one of my fermentors as a cold liquor tank, bringing the temp down as much as possible, and pumping a circuit from the CLT to the jacket and back. I would like to keep the water captured and limit waste as much as possible. Not sure yet, just kicking around some idea's.

Thanks again,
Mike.

P.S. If you could PM me a pic of the ground water chill setup "in action" it would be appreciated :D

gert
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:27 pm
Model: 200 litres
Location: Belgium
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Re: Anyone using the jacket to cool wort?

Unread post by gert »

I also don't use the jacket on my BM200. After boiling I do a whirlpool/hop stand for 20 minutes before sending the wort through a plate chiller, connected to ground water. Starting temperature in BM200 after whirlpool is around 85°C, 30 minutes later the wort in the CCT is around 40°C (in summer; a bit colder in winter). But the CCT is connected to a Chilly that further cools down the temp to pitching temp (another 30 minutes).
Of course, what I could do is connecting the ground water to the BM200-jacket and start chilling during whirlpool time (so the the starting temp after whirlpool is less than 85 and the temp in CCT will also a bit less).

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mashy
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Model: 20 litres
Location: Mercia

Re: Anyone using the jacket to cool wort?

Unread post by mashy »

I know someone who used an IC into an air cooled copper coil to take 'the top off' before feeding it through a 2 line pub chiller before returning it to the IC. Closed circuit glycol I think.

It was always my plan to make one if I couldn't get sub 10 minutes with groundwater.

modin
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:40 am
Model: 200 litres
Location: South Bavaria, 87616 Marktoberdorf

Re: Anyone using the jacket to cool wort?

Unread post by modin »

@beaver71: Hi Mike, apologies, haven't been reading here for a while. I will PM you some photos within the next days! And yes, that is hot water down the drain, i save the first 100 liters or so (very hot) for cleaning purposes. Best, Martin

Beaver71
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:25 pm
Model: 20 litres

Re: Anyone using the jacket to cool wort?

Unread post by Beaver71 »

@Modin, no worries. I obviously only check in rarely as well. Whenever you get a chance it would be appreciated :beer:

@Mashy, I can't wrap my mind around that :oops:

@Gert, thank you for sharing your steps. I followed the link to your brewery, very tidy! I have a question about your venting, I'll send you a PM.

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