Multi step mash profiles

The Braumeister makes it a lot easier to do multi-step mashes, so this section is dedicated to discussions about mash profiles.

Multi step mash profiles

Unread postby Philthebrewer » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:50 pm

After much trial and error over about 5 years I have come up with these 4 different mash profiles, for different purposes. I would love to see some improvement on them. I list them below and have added the beersmith2 files for them as attachments below each profile:

Light Body: I tend to use this for belgian and other specialty beers
Code: Select all
Name                Description                              Step         Temperature  Step Time
Add malt pipe       Add 25.00 l of water and heat to 40.0 C  over 20 min  40.0 C        0 min
Protein mode        Heat to 52.0 C                           over 5 min   52.0 C       20 min
Maltose mode        Heat to 63.0 C                           over 5 min   63.0 C       40 min
Saccharification 1  Heat to 73.0 C                           over 5 min   73.0 C       35 min
Mash out            Heat to 78.0 C                           over 5 min   78.0 C       10 min

Notes: 4 step long maltose, short mash out profile produces light body and more attenuation.



Full Body: For english and american ales and similar
Code: Select all
Name                Description                              Step         Temperature  Step Time
Add malt pipe       Add 25.00 l of water and heat to 40.0 C  over 20 min  40.0 C        0 min
Protein mode        Heat to 52.0 C                           over 5 min   52.0 C       20 min
Maltose mode        Heat to 63.0 C                           over 5 min   63.0 C       20 min
Saccharification 1  Heat to 73.0 C                           over 5 min   73.0 C       35 min
Mash out            Heat to 78.0 C                           over 5 min   78.0 C       20 min

Notes: 4 step short maltose, long mash out profile produces full body.



Lager: for pilsners and other lagers using cold ferment lager yeast
Code: Select all
Name                Description                              Step         Temperature  Step Time
Add malt pipe       Add 25.00 l of water and heat to 40.0 C  over 20 min  40.0 C        0 min
Protein mode        Heat to 52.0 C                           over 5 min   52.0 C       20 min
Maltose mode        Heat to 61.0 C                           over 5 min   61.0 C       35 min
Saccharification 1  Heat to 69.0 C                           over 5 min   69.0 C       35 min
Mash Out            Heat to 78.0 C                           over 5 min   78.0 C       10 min

Notes: 4 step long maltose, short mash out profile produces light body and more attenuation. Brad Smith recommends these temperatures for Lagers and also recommends pitching the yeast at the low fermentation temperature.

Philip's 4 step lager mash profile April 2014.bsmx
(5.46 KiB) Downloaded 198 times


Wheat beer: for wheat beers (obviously)
Code: Select all
Name                Description                              Step         Temperature  Step Time
Add malt pipe       Add 25.00 l of water and heat to 40.0 C  over 20 min  40.0 C        0 min
Beta-Glucanase      Heat to 44.0 C                           over 4 min   44.0 C       20 min
Protein mode        Heat to 52.0 C                           over 5 min   52.0 C       20 min
Maltose mode        Heat to 63.0 C                           over 5 min   63.0 C       35 min
Saccharification 1  Heat to 73.0 C                           over 5 min   73.0 C       35 min
Mash out            Heat to 78.0 C                           over 5 min   78.0 C       10 min

Notes: 5 step long maltose, short mash out profile produces light body and more attenuation. The added 44C rest liberates ferrulic acid which helps the phenolic flavour.



My dream would be to have a library of different mash styles (with explanations of why each timing and temperature is different) so that I can construct my own recipes using these as a base. I look forward to your posts.

all the best
Philip
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Re: Multi step mash profiles

Unread postby BrauTim » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:15 pm

It's interesting that in your notes you add to the different times for the Alpha & Beta Amylase activity rests and include that a long mash-out produces full body and a short mash-out produces light body. I was under the impression that the purpose of the mash-out was to denature all Alpha and Beta amylase, stopping enzymatic reactions from extracting more sugars from the wort, effectively 'fixing' the sweet wort sugar composition and it's body strength. the length of time only needed to be around 10 mins at 78°C+.
To brew or not to brew, that would be a stupid question !
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Re: Multi step mash profiles

Unread postby Cervantes » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:07 pm

Philip,

Thanks for posting these.

I must admit that I had the same understanding as BrauTim with regard the purpose of the Mash Out to be to denature any enzymes still at work.

I also notice that you use a 20 minute protein rest for your ales profile. My understanding (From How to Brew) is that a protein rest isn't required with modified malts and in fact a long protein rest could be detrimental to head formation/retention.

But this is what I have read. Not knowledge gathered from experience over five years and sixty brews......

I would be very interested to hear your views on this.
Cheers :cheers:
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Re: Multi step mash profiles

Unread postby cpa4ny » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:06 am

Cervantes wrote:
I also notice that you use a 20 minute protein rest for your ales profile. My understanding (From How to Brew) is that a protein rest isn't required with modified malts and in fact a long protein rest could be detrimental to head formation/retention.



The need for protein rest is not determined by which type of yeast that you use - ale or lager.

It is determined by the type of grains that you use (highly modified or not).

Also - if the grist contains high percentage of certain unmalted adjucts (ex. unmalted wheat) - then the protein rest should be extended as well.

As an example, I use high % of not-so-highly modified German pilsner malt in both of my Pilsners (lagers) and Belgian-style beers (ales).

Both mashes would get the same fairly extended protein rest (15-20 mins).

American and British malts tend to be highly-modified, so a protein rest can be skipped altogether.

Cheers :beer:
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Re: Multi step mash profiles

Unread postby Cervantes » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:34 am

cpa4ny,

Many thanks for the response. It is in line with what I understand to be the case, but I would still be very interested to hear from Philip as to what effect he feels the protein rest is having on his brews.

As you rightly state it's relative to the grains that are being used. Perhaps Philip uses a percentage of wheat in his ales for body and head retention and so benefits from a 20 minute protein rest? I'm just trying to understand the why's and wherefore's rather than just blindly copying someone else's mash profiles.

What John Palmer actually says on his website is............

"Fully-modified malts have already made use of these enzymes and do not benefit from more time spent in the protein rest regime. In fact, using a protein rest on fully modified malts tends to remove most of the body of a beer, leaving it thin and watery."

Although I seem to recall that in the later edition of his book he amends this to something along the lines of.......

In fact, extended protein rests used on fully modified malts tends to remove most of the body of a beer, leaving it thin and watery.

This is not a direct quote as I don't have the book in front of me. But it does raise the question as to whether a short protein rest offers some benefits.

I certainly don't have enough brews under my belt to comment, but am interested to hear from brewers who have experimented with using protein rests with modified malts and what the results were. I've certainly seen others claim that there is some benefit to a short 5 minute protein rest.
Cheers :cheers:
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Re: Multi step mash profiles

Unread postby Cervantes » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:19 am

There is a very good post on AHB regarding protein rests and full bodied beers. In this case a Helles.

Post three by Bribie G in this thread offers an alternative to John Palmer's often quoted theory.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/57140-protein-rests/

Here is an extract...................

"However as the book I'm currently reading "Munich Helles" by Horst Dornbusch elegantly puts it:

Proteins are nitrogen based substances. In grain, they come in the form of dozens of molecular structures from the simplest amino acids to very large molecular chains. The largest of the proteins, if not converted by proteolytic enzymes to smaller-chain proteins, are the most susceptible to coagulation and flaking in the kettle. Because helles is a full-bodied beer, it is important to compose a mash schedule that yields maximum proteolytic conversion The Helles brewer wants plenty of proteins to show up in the beer, not just in the trub."

As I understand it this basically says that you want to break down the largest protein chains into smaller chain proteins so that they don't drop out during the boil, but remain in the beer and add body.

What's not clear is whether he is talking about highly modified or under modified malts and whether in highly modified malts this process would already have taken place during malting.

Anybody care to comment?
Last edited by Cervantes on Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers :cheers:
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Re: Multi step mash profiles

Unread postby cpa4ny » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:38 am

Cervantes wrote:

I've certainly seen others claim that there is some benefit to a short 5 minute protein rest.



On page 12 of BM's manual, Speidel recommends a protein rest of 5-20 minutes @ 52C.

So it seems like 5 minutes may be ok even with the highly-modified malts.

Of course Speidel being a German company may be more familiar with continental malts, which are generally less modified than British or American malts (not too sure about Aussie malts).

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Re: Multi step mash profiles

Unread postby Cervantes » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:56 am

cpa4ny wrote:
Of course Speidel being a German company may be more familiar with continental malts, which are generally less modified than British or American malts (not too sure about Aussie malts).

:cheers:


Aussie malts are pretty much the same as American and British. Highly-Modified unless specifically stated otherwise.
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Re: Multi step mash profiles

Unread postby Cervantes » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:23 am

Just a thought.

This thread has made me realise that it would be great idea to provide a description of the type of beer and grain bill that it is intended for when posting a mash schedule.

Perhaps it's possible for Niels to add a request for this as a sticky to this topic.
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Re: Multi step mash profiles

Unread postby Cervantes » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:20 am

Some more interesting from George Fix reading regarding both the protein rest and a 40 degree rest here
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Re: Multi step mash profiles

Unread postby cpa4ny » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:04 am

Cervantes wrote:Some more interesting from George Fix reading regarding both the protein rest and a 40 degree rest here


Thanks Andy - I am a big fan of George Fix's mashing methodology and use it quite often.

Palmer refers to it as well: http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter16-2.html
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Re: Multi step mash profiles

Unread postby Diakhatem » Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:12 am

Hello Everyone,

I am new at brewing and just wanted to say a big thank to Phil for posting his mashing profiles for BM :cheers: today is my 4 batch using them :beer:
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Re: Multi step mash profiles

Unread postby bierfest » Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:27 pm

Thanks for posting these Phil. I guess there is no better way to find out than to use them.

Has anybody else used them and if so what is your verdict.

Phils idea of having a post with tried and tested mash profiles is great. People can then vote them up if they like then...
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