My Single Step Mash Profiles for Modified Malts

The Braumeister makes it a lot easier to do multi-step mashes, so this section is dedicated to discussions about mash profiles.

My Single Step Mash Profiles for Modified Malts

Unread postby Cervantes » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:18 am

I'd appreciate it if anyone would like to comment on my mash profiles below.

I can take the good and the bad, so please be honest.

I use these for brewing British style ales.

Light Body
Mash In - 38 Deg C - 10 Minutes
Saccharification - 65 Deg C - 60 Minutes
Mash Out - 77 Deg C - 15 Minutes.

Medium Body
Mash In - 38 Deg C - 10 Minutes
Saccharification - 67 Deg C - 60 Minutes
Mash Out - 77 Deg C - 15 Minutes.

Full Body
Mash In - 38 Deg C - 10 Minutes
Saccharification - 69 Deg C - 60 Minutes
Mash Out - 77 Deg C - 15 Minutes.

I've attached the Beersmith profiles for those with Beersmith.

01. BM 20L - Single Step - Light Body.bsmx
Light Body
(3.7 KiB) Downloaded 72 times

02. BM 20L - Single Step - Medium Body.bsmx
Medium Body
(3.7 KiB) Downloaded 60 times

03. BM 20L - Single Step - Full Body.bsmx
Full Body
(3.7 KiB) Downloaded 67 times
Cheers :cheers:
Andy
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Re: My Single Step Mash Profiles for Modified Malts

Unread postby Philthebrewer » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:25 pm

Hi Andy. For British Ale styles I tend to try to brew a full body beer as this gives a rounder flavour and leaves the beer slightly sweeter. I like the simplicity of varying only one factor, the saccharification step temperature as this makes it easy to judge the results.

Because I have a Braumeister (5 years 60 brews) I can do a really complex mash. Because I can do a complex mash I tend to do it. I am not sure if it makes the beer better but it definitely feels more interesting and there is a lot more to play with in multi steps. I will set out my latest 4 mash profiles in another post in this section and you can maybe see the difference. I am trying to vary the length of the maltose and the mash out periods to get more or less fermentable sugars produced. It does seem to work and I think I can tell the difference, but to be honest there are so many other factors at play that it is difficult to tell.

My dream would have been to have Speidel experiment with the optimum mash profiles for every type of beer in the BJCP style guide. However as that is not happening I hope we can do that here.

I look forward to hearing of your results.

all the best
Philip
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Re: My Single Step Mash Profiles for Modified Malts

Unread postby Cervantes » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:50 pm

Philthebrewer wrote:
I will set out my latest 4 mash profiles in another post in this section and you can maybe see the difference. I am trying to vary the length of the maltose and the mash out periods to get more or less fermentable sugars produced



Philip,

Thanks for the reply.

I'd be very interested to see your mash profiles.

I only have very few brews under my belt so far and so have yet to really get into experimenting with different stepped mash profiles.

I'm looking forward to experimenting though.
Cheers :cheers:
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Re: My Single Step Mash Profiles for Modified Malts

Unread postby Dicko » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:03 pm

Hi Andy,

I have been adding a 20 min rest at 71 deg to my light and medium body mashes as apparently it is reported to assist in head retention.
Without searching for technical explanations this rest helps with the formation of long chain enzymes which give the beer the ability to hold and form a head.
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Re: My Single Step Mash Profiles for Modified Malts

Unread postby Cervantes » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:18 pm

Dicko,

Thanks for that.

Do you think that the full body profile would benefit as well? Or is the 69 close enough to the 71 that it isn't required?
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Re: My Single Step Mash Profiles for Modified Malts

Unread postby Dicko » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:04 pm

Cervantes wrote:Dicko,

Thanks for that.

Do you think that the full body profile would benefit as well? Or is the 69 close enough to the 71 that it isn't required?


Mate, it probably would but I haven't mashed that high with my BM yet.
I would probably give it a go on a beer that needs a full body mash.
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Re: My Single Step Mash Profiles for Modified Malts

Unread postby Cervantes » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:22 pm

Okay, I've now modified my mash profiles to include a 20 minute "Dicko" rest at 71 degrees C.

Should I leave my saccharification rests at 60 minutes or shorten these up a bit to compensate?
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Re: My Single Step Mash Profiles for Modified Malts

Unread postby Dicko » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:39 pm

Cervantes wrote:Okay, I've now modified my mash profiles to include a 20 minute "Dicko" rest at 71 degrees C.

Should I leave my saccharification rests at 60 minutes or shorten these up a bit to compensate?


Some malts convert really quickly and some take more time, I would keep the 60 minute beta rest unless you are confident that the malt you are using is going to convert quickly.

Just to digress a little, there was a guy over on AHB that worked at CUB and he claimed that to brew an Aussie Megaswill Lager clone he suggested a low temp beta rest should be for 2 hours, with no other rests except for mash out.

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Re: My Single Step Mash Profiles for Modified Malts

Unread postby piet_v » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:42 pm

why do you mash in at 38°C; well-modified malts need neiher glucanase nor protease rest ??
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Re: My Single Step Mash Profiles for Modified Malts

Unread postby Cervantes » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:51 pm

piet_v wrote:why do you mash in at 38°C; well-modified malts need neiher glucanase nor protease rest ??


To quote George Fix.............

"The value of the rest at 40C can not be understated. The rise in SG in this mash is almost 3 times faster than what I get when this rest is omitted. The final mash yield is ~20 % higher. Clearly there is a lot of favorable activity going on including preparation of the enzyme systems, beta glucanase activity, and highly favorable enzymatically assisted grain liquefaction."

He was talking about highly modified malts and more can be found here.

I've read in several places that a rest at 38 to 40 assists with grain liquefaction.

I also figure, maybe wrongly, that by mashing in low and increasing up through the temperature ranges at approximately 1 degree a minute I probably hit quite a few enzymes sweet spot even if only for brief time. This may help with with efficiency and to be honest I can't see it hurting.

But then I am very new at this. Lot's of reading, but very little practical experience.
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Re: My Single Step Mash Profiles for Modified Malts

Unread postby BrauTim » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:12 pm

I often mash-in at 40°C and I do that because I read it in Palmer's Chapter 16.2 - Multi-rest mashing and Chapter 14.3 Doughing-in
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Re: My Single Step Mash Profiles for Modified Malts

Unread postby piet_v » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:39 pm

Fix was writing that 15 years ago. It is obsolete in the brewery because it was taken care of during malting.
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Re: My Single Step Mash Profiles for Modified Malts

Unread postby Cervantes » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:05 pm

piet_v wrote:Fix was writing that 15 years ago. It is obsolete in the brewery because it was taken care of during malting.


Piet,

I believe it to be true that a Protein rest at 50 isn't required for modern highly modified malts, but still think that the rest at 40 has merits.

Palmer still says this in the latest version of his book "How to Brew" and on his website as pointed out by BrauTim.

Even 15 years ago when fix says this he was talking about fully modified malts. Have malting practices change that much in 15 years?

As I say I don't have enough brews under my belt to have experimented, but have a pretty good idea that Fix and Palmer would have done some pretty extensive research.
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Re: My Single Step Mash Profiles for Modified Malts

Unread postby cpa4ny » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:33 am

Cervantes wrote:
piet_v wrote:Fix was writing that 15 years ago. It is obsolete in the brewery because it was taken care of during malting.


Piet,

I believe it to be true that a Protein rest at 50 isn't required for modern highly modified malts, but still think that the rest at 40 has merits.

Palmer still says this in the latest version of his book "How to Brew" and on his website as pointed out by BrauTim.

Even 15 years ago when fix says this he was talking about fully modified malts. Have malting practices change that much in 15 years?

As I say I don't have enough brews under my belt to have experimented, but have a pretty good idea that Fix and Palmer would have done some pretty extensive research.


+1 - I don't believe we had a malting revolution within the past 15 years.

What was applicable during George Fix's time is still very relevant today.

I personally happen to believe what a PhD from Harvard and a Ninkasi award winner has to say on the mashing schedule :beer:
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Re: My Single Step Mash Profiles for Modified Malts

Unread postby piet_v » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:24 am

cpa4ny wrote:I don't believe we had a malting revolution within the past 15 years.

In the past decades european continental malts have slowly moved from 'mediom' modfied to well modified, that is a fact.

cpa4ny wrote:What was applicable during George Fix's time is still very relevant today. ...
Palmer still says this in the latest version of his book "How to Brew" and on his website as pointed out by BrauTim.

Well, the oldest brewing logs to be found around the world are British, and the show the British have been mashing in at saccharification temperatures since the early 1800's at least, Tim must must be the only Brit since to do otehwise :mrgreen: .
38 ° Degrees was typically used in Belgium in the (very) old days when using large amouts of unmalted.

Cervantes wrote:I personally happen to believe what a PhD from Harvard and a Ninkasi award winner has to say on the mashing schedule

I am no scientist, so there may indeed be fringe benefits, don't know, but I think any brewer suggesting to introduce glucanase step on modified malts would probably find himself sacked - the cost of the energy on itself ...
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