An exciting announcement from Speidel

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Re: An exciting announcement from Speidel

Unread postby beck » Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:42 pm

Niels. Will you be able to post the reply from Ralf soon? I'm on the fence as to my second 20L.
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Re: An exciting announcement from Speidel

Unread postby niels » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:02 pm

beck wrote:Niels. Will you be able to post the reply from Ralf soon? I'm on the fence as to my second 20L.

Yes, give me an hour to finish up some administration and then I'll take the time to post the answers.

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Re: An exciting announcement from Speidel

Unread postby niels » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:21 pm

Looks like administrative jobs always take longer than expected. So without further delay I will post you the e-mail with the questions and answers from Ralf. I removed one personal question and one part of an answer that was meant for me personally.

(Bold are the statements with the related questions. Regular are Ralf's answers.)

E-mail with Ralf wrote:"There might be a firmware update coming soon."
  • Is there a timing when this firmware will be available? Not before the next two month. And it will come from time to time a new one.
  • What changes (or fixes) can we expect? We collect what we hear from customers and are eager to know what the members in the forum wish to have. Even if we can’t realize all. No details what we change at this point.
  • How will this firmware upgrade be applied?If you you have the WiFi modul you can upload it to the existing controllers
"It is possible to order a replacement for the controller for € 325,00 + shipping"
  • Does this replacement require the return of your old controller? no
  • Is this replacement only to be ordered directly from Speidel or also through resellers? At first only from Speidel later we intend to do it via distributers.
  • Is this price correct? 325 Euro + VAT for 20l and 365 Euro for 50l
"The WiFi functionality will be available in May and requires an extra accessory."
  • Is this timing accurate? No we have a delay. So in the moment we plan with July.
  • Is it true that we need another accessory? Yes you need the extra modul.
  • Is the accessory a proprietary device from Speidel? Yes
  • What will be the cost? Not known yet. *EDITED* If we can increase the numbers we can reduce the price later. So we think about to sponsor it at the start to get the bigger sales numbers.

Conclusions:
  • Firmware will not be before the end of April and you will need a WiFi controller to update.
  • You can change your controller without returning your old one for € 325 (BM20)/€ 365 (BM50) plus VAT and shipping. For now only directly from Speidel.
  • WiFi will require a separate proprietary device which will not be available before Q3 2015.

Personally I'm a bit disappointed. It feels like Speidel rushed the new model to get it to the market instead of taking a few months extra to finish the whole system and integrate the WiFi in every unit. Also, it looks like we'll have to wait until the WiFi box comes out before we can update the firmware. If this is the case it means that only the models produced between the firmware release and the WiFi box will be running this firmware. Besides that the dependency of the WiFi box for firmware upgrades handicaps owners who don't want to invest in this box as they might not need the networking functionality.

The Braumeister is a nice piece of kit and I would still buy one, but knowing this all now I think some people might reconsider and wait a bit before jumping in.

- Niels
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Re: An exciting announcement from Speidel

Unread postby beck » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:41 pm

Not cool... speidel stopped production of the old model. Came out with a new model at a higher cost with the promise of future vaporware and then expects there customers to divi up yet more money to get the options that were promised in the new model. Speidel is screwing the pooch as the Americans say. I'm in aviation technology and I have seen this kind of hopefull marketing pitch before. It never goes well. With this news I'm going to go another way with my next upgrade. And I'm sure not going to recommend the braumaster. But then what do they care? The 20L and 50L are a hobbies model. No money in it for them concidering the other lines they carry.
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Re: An exciting announcement from Speidel

Unread postby BrauTim » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:43 pm

Disappointing for early adopters,but not unexpected, none of it takes away the fact that the BM still makes beer though. An upgrade controller is too expensive for me just to have a few whizz bang gizmos and wireless none of which will make my beer any tastier or the experience much better.
To brew or not to brew, that would be a stupid question !
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Re: An exciting announcement from Speidel

Unread postby stevodevo » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:30 am

From the perspective of somebody who just purchased the new model, I’ll just say the most disappointing thing to come out of the news is that the wifi feature is going to cost extra.

I’m not sure if I ever read anywhere reliable that the new feature was lying dormant waiting to be activated, but I’m pretty sure it’s safe to say I’m not the only one who had that impression. It could just be a case of ‘chinese whispers’ creating something out of nothing, but there sure are quite a few retailers around the world selling that line, so I’m not convinced this isn’t some sort of backflip.

I’m not too concerned with the delay for the release of the wifi feature. The way I see it, as it stands I still have the very latest 20L Braumeister model, with a new controller and a couple of minor design tweaks like the new lid and rubber edge strip on the feet. It’s the Braumeister I was always wanting, which is every bit as good as the previous model, but with a bit more to see on the screen, and the option to upgrade in future, and it only cost me AU$100 more than the previous model was selling for. To be honest I expected foreign currency rates to have accounted for more than $100 anyway.

Hopefully Speidel will do something for early adopters and do us a very good price on the wifi component when it is ready for release ESPECIALLY if we need it to update buggy firmware in the new model controller. Actually, if it’s a case of needing it to update buggy firmware that should never have been released, then I think it should be given away at no cost to anyone running such firmware if there’s no other way to upgrade.

So overall, I’m actually glad Speidel released the new version when they did. Even knowing what I know now, I reckon I wouldn’t be waiting until July to see what eventuates. I had money burning a hole in my pocket now which I had to spent (or lose it to home improvements, bills or the like), so I’m glad I had the opportunity to get the latest model when I did.
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Re: An exciting announcement from Speidel

Unread postby crankcasy » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:11 am

I personally feel I have been deceived and did not expect a company of Speidel’s standings to use bait and switch tactics.

I had been holding off on purchasing a new system for a long time and due to the environment that I have to brew in I was looking for a system that would allow me to remotely monitoring what was going on. When Speidel announced that the new units would have Wifi I decided to purchase one. Also one of the other things that swayed my decision was the good name I felt Speidel had although that is not the case for me anymore.

I am also disappointed the speidel has not replied to an email I sent them regarding a different issue I have with the unit.

In hindsight I should have held back but I felt confident making the purchase because Speidel had such a good name in the industry.
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Re: An exciting announcement from Speidel

Unread postby MattSR » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:02 am

I don't feel that it's a deliberate deception - at the very worst I would say that Speidel have communicated poorly, but I maintain that it's not deliberate. I'm still keen to play with WiFi and the new controller so I'll get one once they officially are available.

Also, I received this response from them regarding the new controller (in addition to weather or not caustic solutions are compatible)

thank you for using our Braumeister!

You can use Sodium Hydroxide for cleaning, but not longer than 10 minutes.

The new control unit will be available in the end of May for the end customer for upgrade.

It will costs about € 365,--
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Re: An exciting announcement from Speidel

Unread postby cpa4ny » Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:45 am

BrauTim wrote:Disappointing for early adopters,but not unexpected, none of it takes away the fact that the BM still makes beer though. An upgrade controller is too expensive for me just to have a few whizz bang gizmos and wireless none of which will make my beer any tastier or the experience much better.


+1,000
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Re: An exciting announcement from Speidel

Unread postby Dicko » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:05 pm

cpa4ny wrote:
BrauTim wrote:Disappointing for early adopters,but not unexpected, none of it takes away the fact that the BM still makes beer though. An upgrade controller is too expensive for me just to have a few whizz bang gizmos and wireless none of which will make my beer any tastier or the experience much better.


+1,000


I am of the opinion that I dont need to monitor what is happening from afar to make beer.

If it was openly stated from Speidel that all these new features were to be available with the new model then shame on Speidel, however most of the new options in my opinion seem to be more conjecture and assumption from observers and futire clients. Apparently the new options were to be made available " later"

I personally can not see the need to check what is happening from my I Phone while my brew is "happening" and in all reality....how do you get the the control on the IPhone / tablet / any other remote device to actually lift the malt pipe and sparge some water through the grain.
Most original BM users must know where I am coming from?..
The machine as it stood in its original form did the job and did it well...Am I missing something??
These are really only my thoughts....if I have missed the reasoning behind having a remote view on the brew process then please convince me to update my controller or at worst to buy a new Speidel Braumeister.

:cheers:
The worst thing that can happen if I die is that my wife will sell all my brewing equipment for what I told her I paid for it
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Re: An exciting announcement from Speidel

Unread postby stevodevo » Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:18 pm

I think you're pretty spot on Dicko.

All things being equal, you may as well have the wifi version if that's what the new models come with - there won't be a disadvantage in having the feature. It's yet to be seen what Speidel can do with the wifi feature, but to be honest after seeing the controller, it's still pretty basic, so I don't think we'll be able to play Angry Birds on it while we're waiting for the mash to finish ;-)

Things like being able to upload a mash profile from my PC is a very minor "nice to have" instead of fiddling around with up/down buttons, but still not really a selling point. Creating and saving named recipes on my PC - same deal - nice to have but it's not exactly going to have people lining up to buy one. Link it to Beer Smith or the like and we're starting to see something useful (but I doubt that's on the cards). Although they might be developing a new Braumeister web app to compliment the new controller... who knows.

Being able to upload new firmware would probably be the most practical advantage IF Speidel introduce new program capabilities like having more hop addition timers. I myself have never done more than three additions (yet), but I know there are those of us who do. Having one there for whirlflock etc would be handy.

So you're right... at this stage there are still no compelling reasons for existing owners to upgrade. There's not even any compelling reasons for owners of the new model to upgrade, which is why it's a bit disappointing that we'll have to pay extra :-( Time will tell though... as you say, most of what has been said so far seems to be assumptions and conjecture, so Speidel may really wow us with some awesome new features later in the year.

In the mean time, I'll be enjoying my new toy in all it's manual non-wifi polished stainless steel glory :-)
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Re: An exciting announcement from Speidel

Unread postby dinnerstick » Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:29 pm

I feel exactly the same, Dicko. Seeing the enthusiasm others obviously have for the idea of monitoring their brew from afar I haven't bothered to mention my opinion, so as not to piss on anyone's parade. But, I am curious, what are people hoping to do via the web? You program the thing in advance, and as Dicko says, anything you might want to do during the steps is going to require, at the very least, your hands close enough to the kettle to remove the lid, and your eyes also being in the vicinity, and your arms, or a robotic facsimile thereof, being near enough to remove the wing nut and stir the grain bed... Give me the ability to monitor and control fermentation temperature online, or even more excitingly- CO2 evolution or gravity, now that's interesting. But if I'm physically far away from my brew kettle, it is because there is nothing happening in it that I need to attend to! So I have the same question as Dicko; Am I missing something??
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Re: An exciting announcement from Speidel

Unread postby dinnerstick » Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:33 pm

stevodevo (we posted at the same time) I see your point that saving / uploading mash profiles is an advantage. This could be accomplished easily enough on the controller itself I would think? Or is it already in the new version? I admit I haven't been paying attention to the discussion of the new firmware. Some friends just bought a new BM50, I'll go over for their first brew and check it out shortly.
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Re: An exciting announcement from Speidel

Unread postby stevodevo » Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:59 pm

dinnerstick wrote:This could be accomplished easily enough on the controller itself I would think?


You can save up to four "recipes" on the controller - named 1,2,3,4. The recipes, being displayed in their entirety on the one screen, are a piece of cake to configure, so like I say it would be a very minor nicety. That said, wifi being wifi, any time savings from being able to upload a recipe from a PC will probably be negated by dropouts and having to reconnect at some point or another. I have a love/hate relationship with wifi... I wonder if they'll consider making an ethernet option (kidding).
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Re: An exciting announcement from Speidel

Unread postby niels » Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:52 pm

stevodevo wrote:
dinnerstick wrote:This could be accomplished easily enough on the controller itself I would think?


You can save up to four "recipes" on the controller - named 1,2,3,4. The recipes, being displayed in their entirety on the one screen, are a piece of cake to configure, so like I say it would be a very minor nicety. That said, wifi being wifi, any time savings from being able to upload a recipe from a PC will probably be negated by dropouts and having to reconnect at some point or another. I have a love/hate relationship with wifi... I wonder if they'll consider making an ethernet option (kidding).

It's actually up to 10 brew schedules. My main remark was that you can't rename them as this seems a pretty obvious feature.

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