Stainless steel conical fermenter options

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Re: Stainless steel conical fermenter options

Unread postby rocketman » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:28 pm

chris172 wrote:I just bought one of these Brew Buckets from TMM... it's a great bit of kit.

2014-08-07 20.37.05.jpg


First brew in it last friday.... A Ghost Ship Clone with recovered Adnams yeast. It went off like a rocket and had to replace the airlock with a blow off tube.... all settled down now though..... http://vid1277.photobucket.com/albums/y ... 9108b2.mp4

There is a thermowell and temp probe kit that will be stocked by TMM around Autumn time when they get the rest of the SSBrew Tech stuff delivered.... will just need to drill a hole for it. http://www.ssbrewtech.com/products/weldless-thermowell-with-lcd-temp-display

The FTSS looks quite interesting too if you don't have a fridge. http://www.ssbrewtech.com/collections/ftss

This could get very expensive.... and haven't got the BM yet!!!

OMG! Here in Sweden I can get a Brew Bucket for $407 USD (!!)
kegoutlet sells them for $225 USD.. (about $300 USD with duty+tax to Sweden not including shipping).
From The Malt Miller (UK) it would be something like $260 USD (including shipping).. Tempting..
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Re: Stainless steel conical fermenter options

Unread postby David » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:09 am

Chris

How effective is the racking arm on the SS brew bucket? I ask because there is no dump valve at the base of the conical for drawing off trub/yeast. This is not so important, but does the racking arm offer any better efficiency in drawing off beer than a regular plastic vessel with slightly elevated tap or traditional syphon method.?

Thanks

David
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Re: Stainless steel conical fermenter options

Unread postby niels » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:07 am

I really dig those Brew Buckets. They are "only" 180-something EUR incl. shipping from TMM.

One major drawback compared to glass carboys is the way you can monitor the fermentation visually. Maybe replacing the lid with a plexiglass one (or cut a piece out and add some plexiglass) could be the solution.

Also... 26.5 liters doesn't give much headspace for e.g. 20 liters of beer that is subjected to Westmalle yeast.

The thermowell is a very nice option too. I would love one without the LCD to put my probe through the plastic fermentor that is now in operation.

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Re: Stainless steel conical fermenter options

Unread postby dinnerstick » Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:44 am

niels- i don't think you will miss anything from not seeing fermentation! in my opinion SS far outweighs glass for safety, ease of cleaning and sanitizing, blocking light, and i don't think you can get much information from looking at the fermentation that you can't get otherwise. that said, i love to watch the beer ferment, who doesn't, but if you know your yeast, and monitor CO2 and smell, check gravity, etc. you will know exactly what's going on behind the steel wall.
for the record, i don't have an SS conical, but i ferment mostly in corny kegs, which is possible with a BM20 (details some other time, it's not completely straightforward), but i also have a wortmonster 90L (=24 gallon in their parlance) plastic conical which i haven't yet used as i don't know how the hell i'm gonna fill it! i would be happy to comment on it if i knew anything, all i can say is it looks really impressive.
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Re: Stainless steel conical fermenter options

Unread postby niels » Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:29 pm

dinnerstick: You're right. I just like watching the yeast go up and down the beer during fermentation. :)

But inspection of the thickness of the yeast cake, clarity of the beer and possible infection (pellicle) are easily done using glass (or transparent plastic) carboys.

I contacted Rob from The Malt Miller regarding the availability of the thermowell and the Brewmaster Bucket (a Brew Bucket with the thermowell pre-fitted). If the Brewmaster Bucket is reasonably priced I might buy me one for Christmas!

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Re: Stainless steel conical fermenter options

Unread postby dinnerstick » Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:42 pm

very tempting at that price.
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Re: Stainless steel conical fermenter options

Unread postby dinnerstick » Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:47 pm

i meant the normal ss bucket at 180 gbp... curious how much the +thermowell one is
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Re: Stainless steel conical fermenter options

Unread postby chris172 » Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:31 pm

David wrote:Chris

How effective is the racking arm on the SS brew bucket? I ask because there is no dump valve at the base of the conical for drawing off trub/yeast. This is not so important, but does the racking arm offer any better efficiency in drawing off beer than a regular plastic vessel with slightly elevated tap or traditional syphon method.?

Thanks

David

Hi David

An unknown at the moment as my first time using it is still fermenting.

But to give you some idea, the arm is just pushed into the rear of the tap sealed by 'o' rings. with the arm being slightly bent it can lay at right angles (red).... the whole tap can then be turned 45deg as it's just installed finger tight ...which then turns the arm upward so away from the trub (blue) ... see image below...

Bucket.jpg
Bucket.jpg (42.73 KiB) Viewed 862 times

dinnerstick wrote:i meant the normal ss bucket at 180 gbp... curious how much the +thermowell one is

The Thermowell/Temp Probe is an after market fit and online is priced about $39usd so should be around the £28gbp mark.... Guessing Rob would drill a hole for you prior to sending at a small cost.

niels wrote:dinnerstick: You're right. I just like watching the yeast go up and down the beer during fermentation. :)
But inspection of the thickness of the yeast cake, - Niels

Still plenty of action can be viewed... :geek:

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Re: Stainless steel conical fermenter options

Unread postby niels » Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:43 pm

I contacted Rob from The Malt Miller regarding the new Brewmaster Bucket, the Chronical Series Fermentors and spare parts (e.g. thermowell). Here is his reply:
Rob wrote:We already stock the BrewBucket see here SS Brewtech Brew Bucket Fermenter The Chronical series of fermenters will be available in September along with the spare parts that you mention. They are bringing out a whole raft of new products so I will be adding to the range as the products become available.

Looks like I'll have to put the Christmas tree on a pedestal to fit a Brew Bucket underneath.

:beerbang:
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Re: Stainless steel conical fermenter options

Unread postby Luis Coentrao » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:03 am

One major drawback compared to glass carboys is the way you can monitor the fermentation visually.


I also use a glass carboy 6 gallons as primary fermentor, and the visual thing helps a lot indeed! It's a non-invasive way of monitoring. I check gravity at the end of primary only to be sure if I'm there. Also have a first taste of the green beer before and after diacetyl rest. Trying to avoid getting multiple samples from inside the fermentor!

i ferment mostly in corny kegs, which is possible with a BM20


I use corny keg for carbonayion/lagering. Classic!
Do you use corny kegs as primary fermentors? Good experience on that?
I've read some threads regarnding this and some guys were worried about off-flavors (p.ex. sulfur) remianing in the beer.
Do you monitor CO2 with a Valve? Do you ferment under pressure or you always purge the gas inside the Keg during primary?
What about the trub? Do you use a short dip tube?


As homebrewers, what really are the main advantages of conical fermentors, besides the ability to collect the yeast cake (for those who want to, I'm not on that field)?
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Re: Stainless steel conical fermenter options

Unread postby dinnerstick » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:14 am

fermenting in cornys, i have a few ways. i have a computerized peltier based temperature controlled corny (there are pictures in a thread somewhere on here...?) where the corny is cooled/heated via a copper coil soldered to the outside. i remove the 'out' dip tube and instead have 2 'in' tubes. i run blow-off hoses from both posts. the valves can get clogged with hop material very easily so be careful! i don't bother pushing the beer out under pressure, just old-fashioned siphon into a CO2-purged keg. i have a spunding valve setup to ferment under pressure, have done it a couple times but need to revisit that as a technique. it's great for cornys though as their primary limitation is size, which is quite a limitation when you make 20-25L in your BM20, and under pressure (cue queen) you can really fill them. normally i use fermcap, it helps a lot but can't work miracles. for ~20 liters i fill the temp-coltrolled corny to 17-18L and the rest goes in a smaller vessel which i then control temp by other means, depending on what beer/yeast it is. for larger volumes i split the wort evenly between 2 cornys, or between one normal and one 10L corny, and ferment in a temp controlled fridge. this is great, but that fridge is also my serving kegerator! so when i go away on holiday i always fill it up with fermenters before leaving. if that ss brew bucket fits in my fridge i'm really gonna be tempted, cornys are great but i'd love a convenient purpose-built fermenter as well.
i don't get why there would be off flavors from fermenting in a stainless steel cylinder! sulfur?? no.
just tasty beer.
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Re: Stainless steel conical fermenter options

Unread postby Luis Coentrao » Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:01 pm

Nice.

Let me get it: when you use a corny keg as primary fermentor, you substitute the dip tube by a short one, let both short tubes open to atmosphere to purge the gas and off-flavors from fermentation, and at the end you siphon the beer to a secondary Keg. If we want to control fermentation temperature, just put the keg inside a fridge.

How do you monitor the ongoing fermentation inside the Keg? Take samples to check SG? Measure head pressure with a Spundung valve?
Do you find any advantage of this techinque, in comparison with glass carboys?
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Re: Stainless steel conical fermenter options

Unread postby dinnerstick » Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:23 pm

Luis Coentrao wrote:How do you monitor the ongoing fermentation inside the Keg? Take samples to check SG? Measure head pressure with a Spundung valve?


i really don't think you get any information from looking at fermentation. from experience with the yeasts that i use, i know more or less when they are done, and i give them lots of extra time to finish their job and clean up any bi-products. for diacetyl producers, or yeasts that like to quit early, i ramp up the temperature as fermentation progresses. i give everything at least a week at or above ferm temperature after i'm pretty sure it's done. things can only be better if you wait a little extra time; yeast attenuates, diacetyl and acetaldehyde are cleaned up, yeast continues to drop out of suspension, tiny hop and grain particles also. if it's an unfamiliar yeast, or in the rare event that i need to make a beer quickly, or with a lager (which is still quite mysterious to me), then i may start taking SG samples using a wine thief as fermentation is progressing. but for the familiar yeasts i only take a final gravity reading when i'm transferring to serving (or dry-hopping) keg. if i had a conical (well, i do have one but i am not using it...) i would maybe take more frequent readings, definitely for lagers and other slow yeasts.

Luis Coentrao wrote:If we want to control fermentation temperature, just put the keg inside a fridge.


with saccharomyces i never ferment without controlling temperature. the only times i do that is with brettanomyces (which i use frequently as the only yeast), as the strains i use ferment perfectly at the ambient temps in my house, these i ferment in a (speidel) plastic bucket thingy.

Luis Coentrao wrote:Do you find any advantage of this techinque, in comparison with glass carboys?


i can't really compare to glass carboys, i have some smaller (10, 5L) glass jugs for extra wort and small experiments but i don't use big glass things!

Luis Coentrao wrote:Let me get it: when you use a corny keg as primary fermentor, you substitute the dip tube by a short one, let both short tubes open to atmosphere to purge the gas and off-flavors from fermentation, and at the end you siphon the beer to a secondary Keg.


i put in short dip tubes, but from these connectors i run tubing into a bottle of sanitizer, not open to atmosphere. i'm not against open fermentation but i don't do it. but yes open to atmospheric pressure if that's what you mean. at the end the beer goes into the serving keg, unless i'm using an intermediate for dry hopping.
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Re: Stainless steel conical fermenter options

Unread postby dinnerstick » Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:28 pm

does anyone know (didn't see on the website) can you do pressurized transfers on the brewbucket?
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Re: Stainless steel conical fermenter options

Unread postby Dicko » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:22 pm

dinnerstick wrote:does anyone know (didn't see on the website) can you do pressurized transfers on the brewbucket?


From memory, I think I read somewhere only up to 5 psi.
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