Thinking about getting a 50l BM

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Vladimir
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:26 am
Location: Hedmark, Norway

Thinking about getting a 50l BM

Unread post by Vladimir »

Hi everyone. My first post on forums here :D
I have been homebrewing for some years now, using my Beer Brew 30 automatic. I am close to my 90th all grain batch. I started thinking about upgrading my system to something bigger, since I can't keep up with consumption and I feel I sometimes spend too much time brewing. Braumeister 50 seems to be the nr 1. choice, but I've got some questions to you:

1. Is there any point in getting a plus model? I know this has been debated quite a bit here on forums (and other places on the internet as well). However I fell it's quite difficult to find opinion from someone who actually own an plus model rather than speculations from people who don't.
Retailers here in Norway don't carry the non-plus model anymore. The plus one costs about 24 000 NOK (10 NOK is ca. 1 EUR) plus shipping. It is not very common to find the plus model second-hand and if so, the price is very close to a new one. On the other hand, the used non-plus ones seem to pop up on the internet for 16 - 18 000, usually with chiller and/or other equipment included. I've even seen the old one for like 11 000.
Is the jacket on the plus model any good, or is it just a waste of time and water? Is it difficult to drain afterwards? I like keeping my things as simple as possible, but as long as I am concerned, an immersion chiller is close to zero maintenance and can be stored inside the brewing vessel.
How about the bottom tap? Useful, or just an extra thing to clean? When cleaning my current setup, I always turn the vessel upside-down, since it takes eternity and a day to drain it through the tap.
My mind is currently set on second-hand non-plus model, but I'd really like to hear what your experience is. Also - is there any real difference between the old and new model apart from the display and storing of recipes?

2. Lifting the grain basket - is it doable by a single person? Lifting 20-30 kg grain basket don't seem to be a big deal to me. However, I see a lot of people using electric hoists. Is there some catch in lifting the basket? Are people using hoists just out of convenience?

3. What's the biggest amount of standard (let's say 11 - 12 plato) beer you can get using the 50l model (without double mashing, DME etc)? The vessel has got 85l, so 75l pre-boil should be doable. I see the limitations in the amount of grain though. Any experiences with that? Certainly not a deal breaker, I am just being curious. Whould have been awesome beeing able to fill f. ex 3x20l keg at one go.

Thanks for your time and help :beer:

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Sladek789
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Model: 50 litres
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Re: Thinking about getting a 50l BM

Unread post by Sladek789 »

My view:
1 – Short: the extra money needed for a PLUS model is not worth it.
Longer version: As FYI, I do own hybrid model (Speidel sent me a new BM due to manufacturing issue on the first no-PLUS one I received), it is a non-PLUS BM but it has the lower extra tap. I do not know why I got it that way, as from what I know, it is not a standard feature for the normal BM50.
To my knowledge, the PLUS model has extra, the cooling jacket and the bottom tap. The cooling jacket, alone, does not seem to do a good job cooling the wort in reasonable time frame, but coupled to an immersion chiller, it offers good extra cooling. The extra bottom tap is for me the best feature of the PLUS model, as it greatly eases cleaning. But for 400-500 EUR difference, is for me not worth an inefficient cooling jacket and an extra hole at the bottom. Look for extra bottom tap posts on this forum for an easy DYI bottom tap modification for a normal BM.
Vladimir wrote:However I fell it's quite difficult to find opinion from someone who actually own an plus model rather than speculations from people who don't.
Find here good hard data on cooling jacket performance (in Swedish but google translate is your friend :D ): http://www.lindhcraftbeer.com/2019/04/k ... kylmantel/
Vladimir wrote: - is there any real difference between the old and new model apart from the display and storing of recipes?
To my knowledge the controller is the only difference.

2- Expect if you have the BM on the floor, lifting that full basket isn’t that easy and for me the risk of not positioning well the basket on the U rod (which can easily go out of position by being bumped…. while you are holding the malt tube….you need a third hand :evil: ) is not worth it. I have an elec hoists (could be a cheap manual one) and I can lift the malt tube at the speed I want, forget the U rod and do it all no stress. Again, it is makeable without but if a lot of people use it for the BM50, there is a reason.

3- My biggest batch was 65L (78L pre-boil – 12 Plato beer) and despite the boil being ok (not as vigorous as with 55L obviously), I had to use antifoam to avoid a disaster. I think a safer big batch size spot is around 60L without antifoam.

As FYI, the non-PLUS model is on a 10% sale at https://shop.speidels-braumeister.de/en ... raumeister Look at it if you are looking for a new one. From what I remember, the shipping costs are not extreme.

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mashy
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Model: 20 litres
Location: Mercia

Re: Thinking about getting a 50l BM

Unread post by mashy »

+1 could not have said it better

I wouldn't bother with a plus.
Bottom tap is easy to add, easier still on a 50.
Cooling jacket is pointless. Get a good immersion coil with the change, or better still make a high performance copper one yourself

I think you are bang on trying to find a preowned 50 standard.

Hoists: You want the BM at a good working height, but this is a bad height for lifting a heavy and hot malt tube. Hoists are a popular solution, perhaps try a wide jump step first?

https://www.screwfix.com/p/mac-allister ... 00mm/6409p

Vladimir
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:26 am
Location: Hedmark, Norway

Re: Thinking about getting a 50l BM

Unread post by Vladimir »

Loads of great info here. Much appreciated :beer:

Seems like I will be looking for preowned 50 standard then. The new one on sale seems fantastic. But living in Norway means I have to pay 25% VAT here when buying anything abroad, making it too expensive buying directly from Speidel :( .

The only thing I'm concerned about is the malt tube. For various reasons I can't install a hoist where I brew. But I guess I will have to try and see.

Lifting malt tube on my current setup is a nightmare. The tube has to be lifted above the brewing vessel, than the stand for the tube is placed on top of the brewing vessel and the tube is placed on the stand. Clearly designated for to people. However, I brew alone all the time. Which means lifting the malt tube, holding the dangling tube in one hand while trying to correctly position the stand with the other. Does my head in each time I brew, but I learned how to do it without making too much mess :D

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to answer. I'm not in hurry right now, since I have a working setup, but will surely keep you updated when the time of upgrade comes. :beer:

Btw. is there any brewing system you would consider as an alternative to BM 50? From what I've checked, there really isn't anything else anyway. Maybe Brewtools b80 (which I'm not keen on) and there is a new 70l Grainfather coming soon which might be quite interesting.

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mashy
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Re: Thinking about getting a 50l BM

Unread post by mashy »

Do klarstein do a 50?
.. And why can you not install a hoist? Ceiling height?

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Cristian
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Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:19 am
Model: 20 litres (2015)
Location: Vienna

Re: Thinking about getting a 50l BM

Unread post by Cristian »

check this video as well. (in 3 parts)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRmeiSrwq54

Vladimir
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:26 am
Location: Hedmark, Norway

Re: Thinking about getting a 50l BM

Unread post by Vladimir »

Thanks Cristian. Will look at the video. Looks quite informative :beer:
mashy wrote:.. And why can you not install a hoist? Ceiling height?
It might be doable, but my concerns are:
- I live in a rented place and brew in the kitchen - even if the owner was OK with it (I guess he would), I don't like the idea of a hoist dangling above my head in the kitchen all the time
- I am not sure about how the house is built. The ceiling is made of a thin layer of something that looks like a plywood or something similar. Definitely not something I would trust when it comes to a lot of weight. But I might definitely check it with someone who knows about this stuff.

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Cristian
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Re: Thinking about getting a 50l BM

Unread post by Cristian »

I’ve seen somewhere an interesting hoist on a square metal frame. The frame is on wheels so you can move it all over. Not sure how big it is.

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mashy
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Model: 20 litres
Location: Mercia

Re: Thinking about getting a 50l BM

Unread post by mashy »

Yup been trying to find it.. Round here somewhere..

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Cristian
Posts: 196
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:19 am
Model: 20 litres (2015)
Location: Vienna

Re: Thinking about getting a 50l BM

Unread post by Cristian »

if you like/have time for a DIY project you could build one yourself with some pipes, office chair wheels. (welded or by using threaded corners)

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mashy
Posts: 2986
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:43 pm
Model: 20 litres
Location: Mercia

Re: Thinking about getting a 50l BM

Unread post by mashy »

Found it...

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2815&p=26367&hilit=Hoist#p26367

I did design but never built a hoist & arm that was built into a stand for the BM. The weight of the BM is the ballast.
For a hoist (or a compound pulley) 25kg is not a big lift.
The arm also held the exaction hood and swung full 360 to lower the tube straight into a bucket.

Vladimir
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:26 am
Location: Hedmark, Norway

Re: Thinking about getting a 50l BM

Unread post by Vladimir »

Looks awesome :beer:

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