20L BM Beer Smith Profile

Do you need help setting up your favourite brewing software? Or help out other with the lessons you learned while calculating recipes for your Braumeister.

20L BM Beer Smith Profile

Unread postby moad » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:15 am

Hi all,

Here is my profile, it may not suit everyone but it works for me. the 2L loss varies between 1L and 3L depending on hops (I throw them straight in).

Cheers,

Nick.

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RE: 20L BM Beer Smith Profile

Unread postby Cervantes » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:39 am

Thanks for that Nick,

Mine is very similar.

I have a question regarding "Mash Tun Weight" and "Mash Tun Specific Heat" though.

As I see it these settings are use to calculate heat loss during the mashing process. In theory there won't be any heat loss as the Braumeister controls the temperature during the mashing process.

So I have Mash Tun Weight and "Mash Tun Specific Heat" both set set to zero.

Are my assumptions correct? I'm new to this and would welcome other peoples opinions.

Cheers
Andy
Last edited by Cervantes on Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers :cheers:
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Re: 20L BM Beer Smith Profile

Unread postby bierfest » Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:52 pm

Today I needed to update beersmith with some new hops that were not available in the original version you download. So I went to download some of the extra packs by clicking on the "Add-on" button.
I then noticed that Beersmith have created an equipment profile for the 20l BM. Has anybody actually tried it yet to see how accurate it is.

I normally brew 20l batches on my 50l MB but I guess this should be the same.
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Re: 20L BM Beer Smith Profile

Unread postby Nesto » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:51 am

bierfest wrote:Today I needed to update beersmith with some new hops that were not available in the original version you download. So I went to download some of the extra packs by clicking on the "Add-on" button.
I then noticed that Beersmith have created an equipment profile for the 20l BM. Has anybody actually tried it yet to see how accurate it is.

I normally brew 20l batches on my 50l MB but I guess this should be the same.

I compared the Beersmith profile to what I've been using (both attached). I actually usually use a higher boil volume, but here's what I notice...
- Efficiency is lower - 62% vs. 72%. Like most here, I often get higher than 72%. 62% would be pretty low for most setups, I think.
- The boil off rate is lower at 10.6% per hour, I get 13.4% per hour. Maybe this is due to the insulating jacket I use?
- Mash tun weight is much lower: 4.54kg vs. 14kg. I'm not being exact with 14kg, but I'm pretty sure 4kg is nowhere near enough. Of course, it doesn't matter much what you put in here for a Braumeister process.
- Loss to trub and chiller is very high: 5 liters vs. 1 liter for me. I suppose if you didn't tilt the BM at all, maybe you'd have 5 liters of waste? I tilt when I transfer to my fermenter and usually have between 500ml and 1 liter of waste, depending on what I"m brewing.
- Fermenter loss: nothing to do with your BM, all depends on your fermenter :)

Screenshot 2014-07-20 20.34.42.png
This is the Beersmith profile


Screenshot 2014-07-20 20.36.03.png
This is Nesto's profile
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Re: 20L BM Beer Smith Profile

Unread postby Dicko » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:20 am

The brewhouse efficiency is a near to useless figure in the home brew situation.

Take the Beersmith example and don't record any losses on the right hand side.
You will be left with a batch size of 25 litres and not 20 litres and as you said, who cares how much is lost in the fermenter as long as you end up with the final volume you require.
In my opinion this also applies to what a brewer chooses to leave in the kettle.
I personally leave an average of 4 litres in the kettle as I let the trub settle for a period of time after chilling and I do this to ensure crystal clear wort in the fermenter.
Brewers who use a plate or counterflow chiller may remove more wort as the cold break actually forms in the chiller on the way to the fermenter and even the use of a hop sock could affect the result.

In theory you could tip all the contents of the kettle after cooling into the fermenter and doing this would change the brewhouse efficiency figure significantly.
The important figure that unfortunately is not highlighted in BS in the Equipment profile is Mash Efficiency.

Mash efficiency is the real reflection on the efficiency of your brewery at the home brew level.

I had Promash many years ago and from memory it focused more on Mash Efficiency.

If scaling a recipe from another brewer Mash efficiency is a figure you use, with the brewhouse efficiency being totally useless unless both brewers have the same equipment and operate it exactly the same.

:cheers:
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Re: 20L BM Beer Smith Profile

Unread postby Jacques » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:37 am

Hi Niels,

With my 20l BM, I usually get 75%, 13%/h, the mash tun weight is between 4 and 6kg depending on the beer to brew I guess with the 50l BM, you get the 14kg), and the loss is also between 0,5 and 1,0L.
I don't use the beersmith software, maybe the users could notify them about these differences ?

Jacques.
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Re: 20L BM Beer Smith Profile

Unread postby Cervantes » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:42 am

Dicko wrote:The brewhouse efficiency is a near to useless figure in the home brew situation.

Take the Beersmith example and don't record any losses on the right hand side.
You will be left with a batch size of 25 litres and not 20 litres and as you said, who cares how much is lost in the fermenter as long as you end up with the final volume you require.
In my opinion this also applies to what a brewer chooses to leave in the kettle.
I personally leave an average of 4 litres in the kettle as I let the trub settle for a period of time after chilling and I do this to ensure crystal clear wort in the fermenter.
Brewers who use a plate or counterflow chiller may remove more wort as the cold break actually forms in the chiller on the way to the fermenter and even the use of a hop sock could affect the result.

In theory you could tip all the contents of the kettle after cooling into the fermenter and doing this would change the brewhouse efficiency figure significantly.
The important figure that unfortunately is not highlighted in BS in the Equipment profile is Mash Efficiency.

Mash efficiency is the real reflection on the efficiency of your brewery at the home brew level.

I had Promash many years ago and from memory it focused more on Mash Efficiency.

If scaling a recipe from another brewer Mash efficiency is a figure you use, with the brewhouse efficiency being totally useless unless both brewers have the same equipment and operate it exactly the same.

:cheers:


Well said Dicko

It's a shame that Beersmith doesn't operate this way.

Cheers
Andy
Cheers :cheers:
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Re: 20L BM Beer Smith Profile

Unread postby Dicko » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:06 pm

Unfortunately Beersmith is not designed for a BM type of brewing equipment.
The mash tun weight etc is for the strike water temperature calculations that 3v operators have to contend with. You can put any figure you want in that field with a BM as it wont affect your outcome.

Boil off figures will vary due to altitude, power supply and even the starting volume. This will also change with using a dome or a jacket as well.
The idea with any software for brewing is that you measure each result accurately and adjust you software figures over many brews until you achieve a very close average.
The most important thing with recipe formulation is repeatability.
The need to exactly repeat a great recipe goes without saying. Figures like the loss in the fermenter or what a brewer decides to leave in the kettle will not change the recipe outcome as long as all other results remain the same.

It has been said before...can someone please write a software program specifically for the BM?
I would be one of the first with my money ready should this happen. :lol:

:cheers:
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Re: 20L BM Beer Smith Profile

Unread postby Nesto » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:52 am

Dicko wrote:It has been said before...can someone please write a software program specifically for the BM?
I would be one of the first with my money ready should this happen. :lol:

:cheers:

I do like Beersmith, but I'd be 2nd in line with my money!
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Re: 20L BM Beer Smith Profile

Unread postby Batz » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:44 am

Nesto wrote:
Dicko wrote:It has been said before...can someone please write a software program specifically for the BM?
I would be one of the first with my money ready should this happen. :lol:

:cheers:

I do like Beersmith, but I'd be 2nd in line with my money!



I'd buy it as well, surely it not that hard for a computer savvy guy.
Your not a real brewer until you own a Braumeister
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Re: 20L BM Beer Smith Profile

Unread postby Dicko » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:27 am

Batz wrote:
Nesto wrote:
Dicko wrote:It has been said before...can someone please write a software program specifically for the BM?
I would be one of the first with my money ready should this happen. :lol:

:cheers:

I do like Beersmith, but I'd be 2nd in line with my money!



I'd buy it as well, surely it not that hard for a computer savvy guy.


not a 'like" button here but + 5 at least. :lol:

:cheers:
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Re: 20L BM Beer Smith Profile

Unread postby royco » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:11 pm

[/quote]


I'd buy it as well, surely it not that hard for a computer savvy guy.[/quote]

not a 'like" button here but + 5 at least. :lol:

:cheers:[/quote]

I would pay good money for this :cheers:
Niels, aren't you a bit of an IT boff?
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Re: 20L BM Beer Smith Profile

Unread postby niels » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:39 pm

royco wrote:I would pay good money for this :cheers:
Niels, aren't you a bit of an IT boff?

I'm in the process of creating such piece of software. I do now have a spreadsheet with some formulas in it that I want to verify against actual brews. The first brew I did with it was the Not So Black Liquid and since the brew had some hiccups I can't use it as a reference (although I was almost spot on).

The problem is time... I do have some responsibilities regarding my family and at the moment I'm hard at work getting our garden in shape (it has been neglected for about 5 years and was filled with pine-like trees which grew out of control) and getting the "final" touches of our first phase of house restoration done. When fall is coming I will be spending less time outside and I will be able to start real development on the program.

Since mobile devices (e.g. tablets) are common use now I want to have a program that runs on both desktop computers and said mobile devices.
You can count on it that I will include this community during development and share pre-release versions for testing. There is a big project coming up at one of my clients that will use the same technology as I'm planning on using for the BM app. I'm currently in the process of studying and making proof-of-concepts in it, but when the real development starts I will gain experience quickly that I can use for our benefit. :beerbang:

- Niels
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Re: 20L BM Beer Smith Profile

Unread postby Victor Coelho » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:58 pm

Great news Niels, great news!
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Re: 20L BM Beer Smith Profile

Unread postby Dicko » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:07 pm

That will be great Niels, I will offer my help if you need it but I do need to tell you that I am not familiar with software and computers in general but could assist with testing etc if required.

:cheers:
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