Tasty IPA Overnight

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Tasty IPA Overnight

Unread postby Omphteliba » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:09 am

Last saturday I wanted to brew a new batch of the "Tasty IPA". A few days earlier I discussed with a brewing buddy the bad efficiency he is getting with his BM20. So I tried to find any information about efficiency here in the forum, and what I found was:

  • pH 5.2,
  • mix in very thoroughly and
  • right grind

As I buy my grain preground, i was looking to correct the other two points. I bought the Five Star 5.2 buffer, to take care of the pH. Additionally I read good things about overnight mashing - up to 10% more efficiency even with a full mash tun. So it was going to be an overnight mash!

Code: Select all
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 27,88 l
Post Boil Volume: 22,88 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 20,00 l   
Bottling Volume: 21,50 l
Estimated OG: 22,421 Plato
Estimated Color: 14,4 EBC
Estimated IBU: 173,6 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 62,00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72,4 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
5,00 kg               Pale Malt (Weyermann) (6,5 EBC)          Grain         1        64,1 %       
0,30 kg               Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3,9 EBC)             Grain         2        3,8 %         
0,25 kg               Caraamber (Weyermann) (70,9 EBC)         Grain         3        3,2 %         
0,25 kg               Wheat Malt, Ger (3,9 EBC)                Grain         4        3,2 %         
68,00 g               Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4,00 %] - First Hop           5        25,3 IBUs     
2,00 kg               Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0,0 EBC)          Sugar         6        25,6 %       
60,00 g               Perle [8,00 %] - Boil 90,0 min           Hop           7        47,2 IBUs     
43,00 g               Columbus (Tomahawk) [14,00 %] - Boil 90, Hop           8        59,2 IBUs     
21,00 g               Simcoe [13,00 %] - Boil 45,0 min         Hop           9        23,1 IBUs     
9,00 g                T'n'T [12,90 %] - Boil 30,0 min          Hop           10       8,2 IBUs     
21,00 g               Perle [8,00 %] - Boil 15,0 min           Hop           11       7,7 IBUs     
34,00 g               Mosaic (HBC 369) [12,25 %] - Boil 1,0 mi Hop           12       1,7 IBUs     
28,00 g               Simcoe [12,00 %] - Boil 1,0 min          Hop           13       1,3 IBUs     
20,00 g               T'n'T [12,90 %] - Boil 0,0 min           Hop           14       0,0 IBUs     
4,0 pkg               Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35 Yeast         15       -             
57,00 g               T'n'T [12,90 %] - Dry Hop 10,0 Days      Hop           16       0,0 IBUs     
35,00 g               Mosaic (HBC 369) [12,25 %] - Dry Hop 10, Hop           17       0,0 IBUs     
35,00 g               Simcoe [12,00 %] - Dry Hop 10,0 Days     Hop           18       0,0 IBUs     


Mash Schedule: Braumeister 4 step IPA 91% efficiency
Total Grain Weight: 7,80 kg
----------------------------
Name                   Description                                       Step Temperat Step Time     
add malt pipe          Add 34,43 l of water and heat to 38,0 C over 5 mi 38,0 C        10 min       
Mash Step              Heat to 63,0 C over 4 min                         63,0 C        60 min       
Saccharification 1     Heat to 71,0 C over 5 min                         71,0 C        30 min       
Mash Out               Heat to 76,0 C over 5 min                         76,0 C        500 min       


I mashed in at 10pm, added the Five Star pH buffer, and let the BM do its thing. I even turned the upper coarse filter the other way around, to give the grist a little more space.

Image

A nice long nights sleep later I came in to my brewhouse aka kitchen: the wort was very clear, the mash tun was tightly packed, but i could remove it without getting malt into the wort.

When I measured the preboil values I was very disappointed:

  • pH 5.6
  • SG 10 Plato instead of 18 (1.040 / 1.075) -> 10% efficiency
  • 30 Liters instead of 27

So the Five Star chemicals didn't work or I misunderstood what it can do. Maybe my water was too hard. The whole experiment was flawed and I have to do it again: wrong pH, no control over the grind and just mixing correctly didn't do the trick. After boiling down the wort to 27L and adding lots of dextrose I arrived at 21 Plato. Beersmith told me to get to 22 Plato, so I think I'll have a nice beer either way.

Maybe it is time to invest into a maltmill.

Edit: Added the full Beersmith2 recipe.
Last edited by Omphteliba on Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"Brew! There is never enough beer in the world."
- Burghard Meyer on Beersmith Podcast #66
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Re: Tasty IPA Overnight

Unread postby kahobro » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:58 am

My estimation of your efficiency is approx. 50%. Not good but not 10%.
You have an extremely packed malt pipe and so much water you can not stir, this doesn't help.

2 kg dextrose in your original recipe is pushing it, almost doubling SG with dextrose afterwards is pushing it a lot! If you need to increase your SG it is better to use DME.

You are probably over 50% dextrose in your wort which will probably make a very "interesting" beer, especially combined with a lot of hops.

What you have tried is the extreme use of the BM. My advice is to start with the "normal" way of working:
- Don't try to push as much malt in the pipe as you can fill it with.
- Don't do no-sparge the first time but use an amount of water that allows you to stir the mash once or twice.
- Sparge

Once you get a baseline with that way of working start trying more advance techniques and pushing the limits.

Hans
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Re: Tasty IPA Overnight

Unread postby Omphteliba » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:27 am

Hi Hans, thanks for your feedback.

You are right, I pushed the boundaries of the BM a lot :)

Not the first brew, maybe like the 14.. I just wanted to see what happens when I follow all the advice, I read here in the forum. Which is not meant as critique on the advice given here; I believe that everybody who writes here isn't writing no bullshit, but what they write is what they experienced, or believe is true.

My hypothesis was:

  • If I have the grind and the pH right and mix the grains thoroughly when mashing in,
  • then i can use a full mash tun and do no-sparge.

At least that is how I understood what I read here. Ok, I fucked most of the requirements up, but that aside, shouldn't it be like that?

I mean, if sparging and stirring is irrelevant for some BM-users, AND i do everything as they do, than sparging and stirring must be irrelevant for me too, right? It's the same machine, and - at least for the brewing part - the process is equal for all of us.

Once you get a baseline with that way of working...


And how would I do that?

I have read that couple of times, and I protocol (most) of my brews, but I still couldn't say what is important for brewing with the BM.

So next brewday will be with the exact pH and correctly ground malt :)

I want to find out, what's important when brewing with the BM! :)
"Brew! There is never enough beer in the world."
- Burghard Meyer on Beersmith Podcast #66
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Re: Tasty IPA Overnight

Unread postby RichM » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:07 pm

Hi

Your efficiency is well of because you have to much water and to much grain packed into the malt pipe, if its packed in the pump struggles to push the wort through the grain, it can't move around and therefore struggles to release the proteins and sugars, you also have to much water in there. I do no sparge, i start with 27 litres and post boil end up with about 22/23 litres in the fermenter.

:beer:
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Re: Tasty IPA Overnight

Unread postby Omphteliba » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:15 pm

RichM wrote:Hi

Your efficiency is well of because you have to much water and to much grain packed into the malt pipe, if its packed in the pump struggles to push the wort through the grain, it can't move around and therefore struggles to release the proteins and sugars, you also have to much water in there. I do no sparge, i start with 27 litres and post boil end up with about 22/23 litres in the fermenter.

:beer:


Hi Rich,
thanks for your input!

You are telling me that pH and grind of the grist has nothing to do with the efficiency, only amount of water and malt are the important variables?
"Brew! There is never enough beer in the world."
- Burghard Meyer on Beersmith Podcast #66
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Omphteliba
 
Posts: 139
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Location: Leimen, Germany
Model: 20 litres (2015)

Re: Tasty IPA Overnight

Unread postby RichM » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:43 pm

Omphteliba wrote:
RichM wrote:Hi

Your efficiency is well of because you have to much water and to much grain packed into the malt pipe, if its packed in the pump struggles to push the wort through the grain, it can't move around and therefore struggles to release the proteins and sugars, you also have to much water in there. I do no sparge, i start with 27 litres and post boil end up with about 22/23 litres in the fermenter.

:beer:


Hi Rich,
thanks for your input!

You are telling me that pH and grind of the grist has nothing to do with the efficiency, only amount of water and malt are the important variables?


No the crush of the grain does make a difference, not crushed enough and you will struggle to make efficiency as the grain cannot release the sugars, i buy mine pre crushed from my local shop and have never had a problem. My water comes from a local artesian well and makes great lagers and ales straight out of the ground, so PH or water treatment isn't an issue for me.

To me it just looks like you have started with to much water verses grain pushing the BM to its very limit
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Re: Tasty IPA Overnight

Unread postby kahobro » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:03 am

Omphteliba wrote:Hi Hans, thanks for your feedback.

You are right, I pushed the boundaries of the BM a lot :)

Not the first brew, maybe like the 14.. I just wanted to see what happens when I follow all the advice, I read here in the forum. Which is not meant as critique on the advice given here; I believe that everybody who writes here isn't writing no bullshit, but what they write is what they experienced, or believe is true.

Once you get a baseline with that way of working...


And how would I do that?

What I meant to say that I don't believe the others cram so much malt in the malt pipe when doing no-sparge. Your maltpipe was problably densely packed and needed stirring to get good flow like mentioned above.
I didn't mean to say what the others wrote is not true but you probably applied it in an extreme way.

Omphteliba wrote:So next brewday will be with the exact pH and correctly ground malt :)

I want to find out, what's important when brewing with the BM! :)

A good mill is a must when using the BM!
I found that if pH is slightly off efficiency is not too bad (with my tap water, ymmv).
I do think it makes my blond beers a bit darker if mash pH is above 5.5.
I haven't read anything about that so maybe I'm imaging that my blond beers are blonder since adjusting pH with lactic acid.

Hans
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Re: Tasty IPA Overnight

Unread postby RichM » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:55 am

[/quote]
I haven't read anything about that so maybe I'm imaging that my blond beers are blonder since adjusting pH with lactic acid.
[/quote]

Hi Hans

I dont mind my Blondes to be a little dirtier, it adds a little character provided they taste and look clean

:D :D
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Re: Tasty IPA Overnight

Unread postby kahobro » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:27 am

RichM wrote:Hi Hans

I dont mind my Blondes to be a little dirtier, it adds a little character provided they taste and look clean
:D :D

I just like it when the color is like predicted. A blonde with pils malt only shouldn't look like it has a lot of Munich malt in it.

Just like you I don't think paler is better but I look it when a beer looks like it was planned.

Hans
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Re: Tasty IPA Overnight

Unread postby royco » Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:58 pm

Maybe add rice hulls. Also drain enough wort halfway through to allow removal of top plate. With such a crammed malt pipe you will have to stir very carefully to avoid malt getting into the wort.
Then replace plate and wort and carry on. But I agree the pump may suffer an aneurism from the pressure!
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